Category talk:Strong Bad Email Spin-offs

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[edit] Inclusion

Copied from Talk:Strong Bad Email Spin-offs#Spin-offs, not gags, not items, not characters, spin-offs.
A spin off is defined as "a new organization or entity formed by a split from a larger one" by Wikipedia. Running gags and characters are not spin-offs. Things like tape leg and places like The Office don't warrant being on this page just because their debut was in a sbemail. I feel that this page should be only for things like Teen Girl Squad and cheat commandos. Things that are ACTUALLY spin-offs. I propose a major rewrite and removal of irrelevant data, as in its current state, this page is better labeled "Things that debuted in Strong Bad Emails" which, if there were a page like that, would get deleted very quickly, as it's too general a topic. — Defender1031*Talk 20:12, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
I strongly agree. Places and running gags are not spin-offs. This page is terrible. Even worse than the sightings page. What in the world is The Broternal Order of Different Helmets doing here? Or The Virus? Ding! Last place. Loafing 20:20, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Fine, I'm doing it. If the community decides otherwise, then it's free to revert, but until then this page should be made presentable. — Defender1031*Talk 20:23, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
I would cut it down to
  • Videlectrix
  • Taranchula, Limozeen
  • Dullard
  • Stinkoman (because of the game)
  • TGS
  • Sweet Cuppin' Cakes
  • Cheat Commandos
  • Li'l Brudder (maybe)
And that's about it. Loafing 20:25, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Taranchula and Limozeen are bands, i wouldn't even leave those in. And on second thought, i'm waiting for some more consensus before i do the cleanup. — Defender1031*Talk 20:36, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
I'd agree with making the changes Loafi and Defender have suggested. I'm thinking we leave the bands in, per Loafi's suggestion, as they are essentially separate franchises that have spun off of the sbemail franchise. Heimstern Läufer 21:22, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
I would propose the following as marginal (in keeping with the idea of a true spinoff)
  • Strong Badia (since it is an organizational subsection of Free Country, USA, complete with an army and national anthem.
  • Circles (if we include Limozeen, but clearly less important in the grand scheme of things)
  • The Show (Like Cheat Commandos, and Li'l Budder, it's a separate entity)
  • Dangeresque (same reasoning as The Show)
There could be an argument made for The Office, because of Biz Caz Fri puppet shorts, but that might be stretching the point too thin. As for the organization, the page will be basically a disambiguation page because of the topic; should the rewrite keep the current table format, or simply be a list? wbwolf (t | ed) 21:46, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Sounds to me you're actually better off using a category, and eliminating the page altogether. Qermaq - (T/C) Image:Qermaqsigpic.png 21:59, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Circles is just a song, not a spin-off. The office is just a place in the H*R universe, not a spin-off in it's own right. The Show is more kind of a running gag to me. I'd prefer an article, but if it's basically just a list under a heading, then Qermaq might actually have a point. Loafing 22:21, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
I see the show as a spinoff, the rest i agree with.
Making it a category sounds like a good idea, since a page won't really add that much that isn't on the individual pages. Probably should make this page a redirect, in that case. wbwolf (t | ed) 22:41, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree, cat works just as well. — Defender1031*Talk 22:49, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm leaning toward the "Make it a category" idea too. I think it should include everything that originated from Strong Bad Emails, including characters, places, and series. But the characters in series should be left out to save work; for example, Cheat Commandos should be categorized as a spin-off, but the commandos' individual pages can be left out. — SamSF%20sig.jpgFisher (Come in, Lambert.) 22:53, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
If that is the case, would Stinkoman and 20X6 be both tagged, since their origin is separate, or just one of those? The same question could be asked of Kerrek and Jhonka. Personally, I'd rather see it left strictly with direct spin-offs, like Trogdor and Teen Girl Squad, that level, rather than going down to Homsar and tape-leg wbwolf (t | ed) 23:02, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Actually, the 20X6 places don't seem to have a definite origin from any toon. The closest thing would be Stinkoman himself, who should doubtlessly be considered a SBemail spin-off, but I would tag only 20X6 because the entire concept originated from an email (the article could say something like "The 20X6 universe began with the creation of Stinkoman in japanese cartoon"). As for the PQ characters, that's tough to say. It would make sense to tag them both because of their origins, but the PQ universe didn't originate from an email. What to include or exclude from the category will definitely need further discussion, but I think we should do it on the new category's talk page. — SamSF%20sig.jpgFisher (Come in, Lambert.) 23:26, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Okay, looks like there's consensus here, making the cat... I'll add it to the ones we're sure about also. — Defender1031*Talk 23:30, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Okay, continuing the above discussion regarding the inclusion of certain pages; we all agree that major characters and "sub-universes" that originated in sbemails should be tagged as spin-offs, but next we need to establish how deep we want these tags to go. I think sub-universes created in sbemails should be categorized through their own pages only, while the individual characters belonging to that universe can be excluded. But some sub-universes' characters have originated or developed in more than one email, or a spun-off character was added to an existing spin-off universe. Any suggestions as to how we categorize these cases? — SamSF%20sig.jpgFisher (Come in, Lambert.) 23:51, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

No, we don't agree on that at all. Only spin-offs should be categorized, not all sub-universes. Loafing 23:53, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
OK, I misunderstood the question. In the PQ case, I'd not say that Kerrek or Jhonka are actual spin-offs. But if people agree that they are, then they should be tagged individually. Loafing 00:09, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, that's one of the odd cases; those two originated outside of PQ, then were added later. But now that I think about it, I don't think they should be tagged because even though they originated in emails, they were added to a universe that didn't, and are fairly minor. — SamSF%20sig.jpgFisher (Come in, Lambert.) 00:26, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
How does Peasentry not originate from the Strong Bad emails? Trogdor, the central figure, clearly does, as does much of the imagery (thatch roofed cottages, burnination, et al.) which led to creation of PQ. I would agree that Kerrek and Jhonka would be too minor to include. wbwolf (t | ed) 00:33, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Once again, PQ falls right on the line. You raise good points; most elements of PQ did originate in emails, but the way they all fit together (i.e., Peasantry itself) was not from an email. And Trogdor is a sbemail spin-off indeed, but from dragon. He was added to PQ later on. Right now it seems our best solution is saying "Most elements of Peasantry originated from various emails." — SamSF%20sig.jpgFisher (Come in, Lambert.) 00:47, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Puppet Stuff

Should that really count as a Sbemail Spin-off? The only ones I really count are Everybody Knows It (whose song originated in labor day) and Biz Cas Fri (which was 1st mentioned in other days). Bad Bad Guy 00:34, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

True, the puppets where first seen in Everybody Knows It, which is not a sbemail at all. I'll remove it. Loafing 00:39, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Do Everybody Knows It and Biz Cas Fri count? Bad Bad Guy 00:46, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Eh, even though the "Everybody Knows It" song came from an email, it seemed kind of slapped on, and the puppet video was made later. I don't think that's a close enough connection to call a spin-off. — SamSF%20sig.jpgFisher (Come in, Lambert.) 00:50, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
I put it there because of biz cas fri. — Defender1031*Talk 09:30, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
So we'll count only the Biz Cas Fri shorts for now, unless I get reverted. Bad Bad Guy 20:26, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dangeresque

It seems to me that the Dangeresque series itself only appeared in sbemails. I'm not sure this makes it a spin-off. In fact, I'm pretty sure this makes it a... not... spin off. And now I'm gonna have to jump. Loafing 01:01, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

There's Strong Bad Sings and Other Type Hits and DNA Evidence. Bad Bad Guy 01:06, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Dangeresque is its own sub-series of films. Though it has only appeared in the sbemails themselves, i'd still say it counts. Also, DNA Evidence was very Dangeresque-esque. — Defender1031*Talk 09:32, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Definition

No, I don't mean the Wikipedia one; I think we should come up with our own definition of "spin-off", relating to the sbemails. I suggest we start with "A Strong Bad Email spin-off is an idea that originated in a Strong Bad email, and has since become the subject of at least one toon, short, or game." This definition would exclude many minor things from the spin-off list, such as the Painting of a Guy with a Big Knife and the Tape-leg running gag. Since these have never "become the subject of their own toon", their appearances could qualify as inside references or running gags, but not full-blown spin-offs. Once again, this definition is experimental. Suggestions for changes are welcome. — SamSF%20sig.jpgFisher (Come in, Lambert.) 01:05, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Anything that became its own toon or sub-series, and which began in a SBemail. That's my idea for a definition — Defender1031*Talk 05:32, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, I do think "series" is a better word than "just one toon or short", since that would also exclude the Broternal Order of Different Helmets, which I don't think is major enough to be tagged. On the other hand, it also excludes Li'l Brudder, who I think should be tagged since he played a major part in the email, though like the BODH he also starred in only one cartoon. — SamSF%20sig.jpgFisher (Come in, Lambert.) 12:44, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Beg your pardon? Qermaq - (T/C) Image:Qermaqsigpic.png 18:27, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes, that's the "one cartoon". — SamSF%20sig.jpgFisher (Come in, Lambert.) 18:40, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
I think you'll find Lil' Bridder appeared in a sbemail AND a toon. while BODH appears in only a sbemail. Qermaq - (T/C) Image:Qermaqsigpic.png 19:54, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Ever and More! was not a sbemail. Bad Bad Guy 20:20, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Right. So why is it in discussion? Lil Brudder is a spinoff. What's the arg against? Qermaq - (T/C) Image:Qermaqsigpic.png 20:26, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
The main reason Ever and More! was made was because in the email the movies Homestar wore that weird little viking helmet and made that weird little chant. Sorry if I misunderstood your arg against question. Bad Bad Guy 20:33, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] How about these?

These all started out as Sbemail Easter Eggs (while Crazy Cartoon was an actual Sbemail ending) but were later linked to by themselves from the toon and game menus. Do they count as spin-offs? Bad Bad Guy 21:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

No, a spin-off is a separate entity, not something that is part of the first entity. If there were to be a Crazy Cartoon 2, then it might be a spin-off. Thy Dungeonman has more of a case to it. Still not sure it counts, will think about it more. — Defender1031*Talk 09:01, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Of those that are listed, I would say only Thy Dungeonman truly counts as a spin off, since that has multiple games and their own separate characters. The other games are borderline, since they do exist independently of the emails in the game menu. Homsar Main Page is a one off that doesn't really count as a spin-off. wbwolf (t | ed) 04:41, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Since I couldn't find an article for the whole Thy Dungeonman series I don't think I can add it for now. Bad Bad Guy 21:55, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Videletrix

Rather than start an edit war, why would Videletrix not count as a SBEmail spinoff? It started out in duck pond and grew into a full realized company, complete with their own website. That is clearly a spin-off. wbwolf (t | ed) 17:56, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, never thought of it that way... good prize! — Defender1031*Talk 18:10, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chawacters

Do we still plan to add characters to this category? Out of the ones that are still on the page, the only ones I would add are Homsar, Taranchula, Limozeen, Senor Cardgage, and sloshy (maybe). Bad Bad Guy 02:32, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

If we include characters, the ones listed should be the sum total. However, I'm not sure if they should be included or not. wbwolf (t | ed) 02:54, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A Folky Tale

If I'm not mistaken, that toon spun off of an Easter Egg in the email website, but people count that Easter Egg as its own little thing. (I was not able to visit it before the hiatus) Would A Folky Tale belong in this category? Bad Bad Guy 18:27, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Strong Sad's Folk Tale World is a special case, but I think it doesn't really count as a spin-off; it's too far removed. Yes, Saddy Dumpington originated in Strong Sad's Lament, and the Lament was first linked in an email egg, but we have to put a limit on connections. It's not directly connected, which is the implication of a "spin-off". wbwolf (t | ed) 18:41, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Overkill

Do we really need both a list and category? --Trogga 23:11, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

In the second half of this thread Heimstern explains why both are necessary. — Defender1031*Talk 23:21, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
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