HRWiki:STUFF/Archive/i rule

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[edit] STUFF, Grumble Grumble

Strong Bad's intro may refer to the NES game The Legend of Zelda, in which the player cannot advance through certain parts of dungeons unless they feed a hungry Goriya, who greets the player with "Grumble grumble..."

From: i rule
Posted on: 10:32, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Arguments for:

  1. The style is exact.
  2. TBC have made Zelda references before
  3. The name of the email is "i rule". The name of the land in which Zelda takes place is "Hyrule".
  4. Re arg against 2: Goriyas apparently literally say "grumble, grumble".
  5. Re arg against 6: TBC do not often verify specific fun facts in commentaries; probably less than 25% of the time.

Arguments against:

  1. It's TTATOT.
  2. Re arg for 1: The style is not the same. They're just words; they weren't even spoken aloud in Zelda.
  3. Serious speculation.
  4. In Zelda, the "Grumble grumble" line was not accompanied by other words, such as "Email".
  5. This style of onomatopoeia is very common in real life, even if people have not played Zelda.
  6. It wasn't verified in the DVD commentary. Little factoids like this are often (although not always) corroborated by TBC themselves.

Additional comments:

  • It should be noted that this is one of the most well-known lines from The Legend of Zelda, not obscure by any means.
    • There aren't very many lines in Legend of Zelda anyway, it has very little to stand out from.
      • True — I guess what I really mean is that it's an oft-quoted line among people who grew up with the game.
  • Re Arg Against #1: How, exactly, is this TTATOT? I haven't seen anyone bring up a "That" or a "The Other Thing".
    • The word "Grumble" is by no means obscure, Zelda or not.
      • Didn't say it was. I'm just wondering what the "That" and the "The Other Thing" are that make this fact, supposedly, "TTATOT". Honestly, that's becoming the single most overused argument here; the new "This Fact Isn't Fun", as it were. "TTATOT" was a term originally created to handily describe facts that were written as "This is a reference to X. Or it may be a reference to Y. Or it may be a reference to Z". In other words, it's a reference to too many things to be an actual reference to anything. Lately, though, "TTATOT" has become a buzzword for any fact that tries to tie a common phrase to a movie, video game, or some other form of media, whether it actually "refers" to many things at once. All right, that was amazingly long for something that has no actual relevance to this fact, but hey.
  • It was always my impression that the Goriyas' stomachs were creating the "grumble grumble" sound effect.
  • It's unlikely that it was intentional, but it should still be included based on the fun tidbit over intentional refrence theory.
    • Maybe, if that was an acknowledged theory and not just something a user put on their page that they think is a good idea.
      • It's not offical H*R Wiki policy, but it's a theory I wish to promote more in article writing, and my reasoning for voting in favor of this fun fact.
        • If it is to be accepted on those grounds, then a strategy must be formulated to say that it is probably a coincidence that people may find interesting.
  • Um guys, this has been open for like a month, can someone smarter than me close it?
    • Now that there's 14 on each side, I think it has to stay open, until someone else votes.
      • Yeah, I was purposefully waiting a full month to close it since the vote was so close. Hopefully, some people who haven't weighed in yet can perturb the vote in one direction or the other.

Votes to accept: Votes to decline:
  1. — Defender1031*Talk
  2.  Loafing
  3. DEI DAT VMdatvm center\super contra
  4. Trey56
  5. Slipknot6477
  6. Has Matt? (talk)
  7. TheYellowDart(t/c)
  8. Foxes Mother
  9. Rowsdower45
  10. YKHi. I'm Ayjo!
  11. Mario2.PNG Super Martyo boing!
  12. Flashfight
  13. Zerlock1124
  14. I R F
  1. ~ SlipStream
  2. SamFisher1022
  3. The Goblin!!
  4. Jay (Talk)
  5. Trogga
  6. GG Crono
  7. Mycroft Holmes
  8. TheCoolBot
  9. .Johnny Jupiter! talk cont
  10. PlasticDiverGuy
  11. S 2 da B
  12. The_3000th_Flare
  13. גשמלדרברגן (Geshmalder)
  14. DorianGray
  15. It's dot com

Proposed revision:

It may not have been intentional, but Strong Bad's intro mimics a line from the NES game The Legend of Zelda, in which the player cannot advance through certain parts of dungeons unless they feed a hungry Goriya, who greets the player with "Grumble grumble...". Also, the title of the email, "i rule", rhymes with the name of the land in which The Legend of Zelda takes place—"Hyrule".

Arguments for:

  1. "May not have been intentional" sounds cleaner and more encyclopedic than "may refer to". The former specifies "we're not sure this is a refrence" where as the latter just says "we're not sure".

Arguments against:

  1. While this type of fact might be appropriate in some circumstances, the wording casts more doubt on a fact than a wording like "may refer to". For this fact, the reference was intentional, so a stronger wording is warranted.
  2. Re arg for 1: It does not sound cleaner or more encyclopedic; rather, it sounds uncertain.
  3. Unintentional "references" are nearly always excluded. The question is whether it was intentional or not, and therefore this re-wording makes it worse.
  4. Overall, the original wording was better.

Additional comments:

  • This method could be used in other places: "It may not have been intentional, but...". Obviously, we have to be sure not to overuse this. I say should only be used to include a Fun Fact that has two or more separate points supporting the alleged coincidence. In this case, "grumble grumble" and "i rule".
  • I've reworded a lot of the arguments in both the original and revised wordings. Arguments sections are not for first-person opinions or questions. Arguments should be presented as specific assertions, and people reading them can form their decisions based on whether they agree or disagree.
  • We as a wiki do not exclude 100% of unintentional references. I have reworded the argument to read "nearly always".
  • The first argument for has been expanded as a response to the second argument against.

Votes to accept: Votes to decline:
  1. .Johnny Jupiter! talk cont
  2. ~ SlipStream
  1. Trey56
  2. Jay (Talk)
  3. — Defender1031*Talk
  4. I R F
  5. Mycroft Holmes
  6. PlasticDiverGuy
  7. CoachG
  8. The_3000th_Flare
  9. גשמלדרברגן (Geshmalder)
  10. It's dot com
  11. Chiron

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