HRWiki:STUFF/Archive/Thy Dungeonman 3

[edit] Fake Ketchup

From: Thy Dungeonman 3
Posted on: 16:46, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Arguments for:

• Ketchup has been used as fake blood before, but that particular cartoon called into question first the idea of "fake ketchup".

Arguments against:

• This stretches so far it breaks.
• The analogy isn't even the same. In the comic, fake ketchup = fake blood, but in the game, fake ketchup = real blood.
• Ketchup as "fake blood" is common in cartoons, TV, Movies, Comics, etc, and is too common for it to have specifically referenced this one comic in particular, or any one anything in particular.

Additional comments:

• The caption went something like: "Don't worry, Jimmy, they're just actors... and that's not real ketchup."
• Can you get some real arguments against? That's purely opinion.
  • A lot of arguments are opinions. As it is, the argument perfectly captures just how unlikely this item is true. I guess it's possible that TBC are referencing one specific panel of a comic that ended over sixteen years ago (they don't even make the calendar anymore), but I don't think so. Since you asked, however, I'll put another argument up there.
• Why were those arguments against not real? This fun fact won't be any more valid either way.
• As for the second one, the comic was implying that it was real blood.
  • Unless there's more to it than posted here, I don't know how you'd get that from the comic besides pure speculation. It could be strawberry paste or something. The game, on the other hand, actually refers to the substance as "blood" multiple times.

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[edit] Taps the bottle and twists the cap

From: Thy Dungeonman 3
Posted on: 19:01, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Arguments for:

• Lyrics to the song "Tap the Bottle." The song's refrain is "Tap the bottle and twist the cap."
• TBC make frequent references to old-school hip-hop, especially from the late '80s and early '90s.
  • Example?
    • Ye really shouldst loggeth in before adding to ye STUFF. (Yes, I know that's terrible Elizabethan English. Like Thy Dungeonman isn't?) That said, just look at any of Coach Z's Halloween costumes aside from the most recent.

Arguments against:

• How else do ye get catsup out of a bottle?
• Most likely parodying how hard it is to get ketchup out of a bottle rather than some rap group.
• TTATOT – this isn't even the only song which mentions the tapping of bottles and the twisting of caps. It's probably a reference to something, but there's no real way we can tell what.
  • The two other songs to include the line are from 2001 (Richard Blackwood's "1, 2, 3, 4, Get With the Wicked" and 40 Below Summer's "Step Into the Sideshow) [1] TBC tend not to make references to songs that recent or to songs that obscure; "Tap the Bottle" hit #6 on Billboard's Rap Chart and #55 on the Hot 100 Singles Chart (source).
    • Perhaps, but there are also a lot of sites other than lyric sites that use the phrase too, most of which aren't obviously referencing any of those songs, which is what I was really pointing out with that link... the other songs were jus emphasis. This is still TTATOT.
      • On the contrary, the YBT song coined the phrase. This isn't an example of a commonplace phrase whose origin is unclear; we know where the phrase started, and it's an area (old school hip-hop) that TBC mine frequently for references. Incidentally, a search for "tap the bottle" "twist the cap" -lyrics yields just 344 results, many of which still refer explicitly to YBT. Google results

Additional comments:

• Possibly change to "may be a refence to..." and I'd vote to accept. They just seem more to be referencing how ketchup can be difficult to get out of the bottle sometimes.
• I'm split on this fact, but who keeps adding the laughably false comment that TBC "never" reference rap groups?
• If this was simply a reference to getting ketchup out of the bottle, 1) why would they use the exact phrasing from a well-known song, and 2) why would they tap the bottle before twisting the cap? Don't you remove the cap first and then hit the bottle?
• Looking at the other real world references, I see that there're many other song references. I don't see anything that makes this any more or less likely than the other ones, but meh, I'm not much into mainstream music, so I'll remain neutral here.

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[edit] Non-existent fact?

From: Thy Dungeonman 3
Posted on: 17:47, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Arguments for:

• The Brothers Chaps do reference games from the 1980's.

Arguments against:

• It just doesn't seem that similar.
• In the mentioned game, the tea is found, then it finally appears. In this game, you never do find these "things". Totally different, not likely a reference.

Additional comments:

• The invisible tea can be seen in this screenshot from an updated version with graphics.
• I'm still tying to figure out what nonexistent item is being referred to here. Is it talking about the "years of emotional baggage" and so on? If so, then wow. Just, wow. If not, then somebody please fill me in, because I can't find anything else in the game that would match this, nor do I see a graphical inventory.
• Didn't this also happen in Peasant's Quest? If anything, it's probably referencing that.

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[edit] The Cartman stole some STUFF!

From: Thy Dungeonman 3
Posted on: 00:05, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Arguments for:

Arguments against:

• The Brothers Chaps have never referenced something as recent as South Park.
• If the cart man had done something, anything, to allude to South Park then possibly. As is, no.

Additional comments:

• Regarding the first argument against: that's probably not true, and even if it were, there's still a first time for everything.
• Certain words in the game are in all caps for emphasis. It seems like if this were a reference, he would have been called a "CART MAN", not a "cart MAN".
• there exist a cart man in this game, and there exists a cartman in sp... not conclusive. he bears a remarkeable resemblence to "tom goes to the mayor" show from cartoon network.

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[edit] It's all been done before

From: Thy Dungeonman 3
Posted on: 19:23, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Arguments for:

• When beginning Return to Zork, it started off with a plain black screen and the words, "You are standing next to a white house. There is a mailbox in front of you." This stayed for a few seconds before a video zooming around the white house fades in. This intro is similar as it begins with the text, as a tribute to the earlier games, and the graphics then appear.
• Zork is already referenced elsewhere in Thy Dungeonman 3.
• Return to Zork was similar to Thy Dungeonman 3 in that it was the first graphical game in a previously text-adventure series.

Arguments against:

• Return to Zork came out in '93, most games that TBC reference are from the 80's.
• Return to Zork's graphics were far superior to Thy Dungeonman 3's.
• It's more likely to be a Videlectrix-style boast.

Additional comments:

• The graphics were intentionaly low-quality in TD3 to keep the "retro" feel.
• Does anyone know of any other games that have a similar opening sequence on their first graphic version, which would make this TTATOT?
• Are there any other examples of game series that started text only and became graphical? Do they use this same transition at the beginning?

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[edit] Fry up some fat

From: Thy Dungeonman 3
Posted on: 21:49, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Arguments for:

• The extra "Fat" implies that it's a spinoff of something.
• A search for "Fat Friar" at the Wikipedia goes straight to a Harry Potter-related page.
• TBC have referenced Harry Potter before in the DVD commentary of the Strong Bad Email no loafing, implying that they are at least somewhat familiar with the Harry Potter universe.

Arguments against:

• Friars are perceived as being jolly and fat. This is simply a description of the friar.
• Even if it's a reference to anything, and I don't believe it is, it's TTATOT - I know at least one other mention of "fat friars" - this one a pun on "Deep Fat Fryers" and certainly not a Harry Potter reference.
• As much as some may want everything to be a reference to Harry Potter, TBC just don't refer to the series very often. Especially since it's from the late 90's, not the 80's.

Additional comments:

• Harry Potter isn't JUST from the late 90's, though, as books are still being published (not to mention the production of Harry Potter movies). I wouldn't say that TBC would never reference something that is still relevant in modern culture.
• Actually, Fat, Fat Friar is given as his name, not a description. He doesn't refer to himself as "A" Fat, Fat Friar or "The" Fat, Fat Friar, just "Fat Fat Friar".
  • Pretty much every character in the game is named after their job or description.
    • But why the superfluous extra "Fat"?
• Wasn't an almost identical fact in pop-up declined?
  • Different context; there, it was a fat fryer. Here, it's a Fat Friar (or, in TD's case, a Fat, Fat Friar.) Homophones, but the meaning is different.
• So nobody familiar with Harry Potter (besides me) thought that the Friar's name rang a bell?
  • I'm totally unfamiliar with HP, and the name conjured up images of Friar Tuck, who was fat.
    • I'm pretty sure the Fat Friar in Harry Potter is supposed to be Friar Tuck; I read that somewhere.
      • Probably in fanon; it's not stated or even implied in the books. Unless JKR (the author) specifically mentioned it, I doubt it.
        • I've read the books, and I don't even remember a character called Fat Friar. Thus, I can assume that he is a minor character and would be an obscure choice for a reference, even for TBC.
          • Sigh. He's Hufflepuff's resident ghost (like Nearly Headless Nick for Gryffindor.)
    • If you're totally unfamiliar, how can you even answer the question? And how can you judge?
      • One can still be justified in weighing in on a STUFF discussion even when he isn't familiar with the supposed reference. In particular, if the "reference" is of a more generic nature or conjures up suggestions of other icons of equal substance, those unfamiliar with the supposed reference have a compelling argument indeed.
• It's not a "Deep Fat Friar". That's an obvious pun, but the extra "Fat" actually destroys the pun (there's no such thing as a "Fat fat fryer".)

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