User talk:Stux/Timeline

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This page is for preliminary work for the Timeline article. --Stux 16:24, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Original Discussion

[edit] Apocryphal

This page is nice and all, but I really don't think we can put too much weight on the events of highschool. For one, Strong Bad's memory is quite "unphotographic", and the email deviates from established continuity. I just don't see how we can present this article as fact. — It's dot com 19:11, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Do we really need this page? I don't think it's very needed... - Joshua 19:09, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Keep That's why I added the qualifier, "According to the strong bad email "highschool"," or "strong bad said" on all that stuff. If we throw out highschool based on Strong Bad's faulty memory, we have to throw out all the information in the Strong Bad emails that might possibly exist only in Strong Bad's mind. (i.e. every time the camera goes away from Strong Bad's computer)

As to whether this page is needed, there are already sections on Free Country, USA's politics and other crap, and some people might find this timeline/historical format useful. It kinda keeps it all together. But perhaps there needs to be some kind of disclaimer or something because even though we're pretty sure the stuff on the page is somewhere close to chronilogical order, we aren't absolutely sure. For example, for all we know 20X6 could actually exist in the past instead of the future, (or visa versa with 1936) or even not exist at all. Just because we don't know that for sure doesn't mean we shouldn't try to connect the dots.

And by the way, I was planning on writing this before I even saw highschool, so if we have to designate highschool as not being part of some kind of Star Trek/Paramount Homestar Runner cannon (which I think is absolutely absurd) the page still ought to exist to document the history within the three already-acknowledged (by HRWiki) eras, being 1936, Present Day and 20X6. --NERD42  email  talk   h²g²  pedia  uncyc  19:24, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

i think this is fine. the matter of highschool and flashback still remain a mystery. Seriously 21:14, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
I would suggest a less formal version, within the Free Country, USA page. The relationships between the time periods simply cannot be explained through a timeline, plain and simple. Seperating the time periods between the ones set in flashback,, Old-Timey, and the most recent highschool, are simply unreconcilable. They shouldn't be considered as an accurate measurable timeline, but they could use a section describing each timeperiod and it's unique style; prefferably within the afforemeantioned page. Thunderbird 21:17, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
If you take out highschool (which I think you should), you lose half the article, and what remains is still a lot of guesswork: "These dates are based on based on speculation" and "An event called TrogdorCon '97 might have taken place in this year", for example. I just don't see enough concrete information to justify having this. — It's dot com 23:47, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm gonna have to agree with Dot com here. Chronology in cartoons in general is usually a pretty tenuous thing. This therefore seems to me to be similar to forming an estimate for Strong Bad's age. Yes, you can find evidence, but it's ultimately made null and void by one simple fact: It's a cartoon. Heimstern Läufer 00:11, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
BALEETED! — talk Bubsty edits 01:01, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
I agree with User:It's dot com, I don't think this article is justified. And Bubsty, please try to control yourself. -- Tom 01:03, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

The trouble with that idea is that there is too much information to put in a section within Free Country, USA. So many things happen within the Homestar Runner universe that it would quickly dominate that article - especially if the Brothers Chaps release more cartoons with references to the eras shown in highschool.

If y'all decide to throw out highschool for some insane reason, that eliminates two sections from this article. Big deal - this is mostly going to be about the Latter 20th/Early 21st century section anyway because most of the cartoons happen then. --NERD42  email  talk   h²g²  pedia  uncyc  17:13, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

The biggest problem with this thing as that so much of it makes no sense in an actual timeline. This is because it uses non-canonical things and states them as fact. What the crap are 1936 characters doing far back in roman times? How would Romans change into microbes anyway? How do we know microbes are BC? What about their odd forms in flashback and Marshmallow's Last Stand? If TrogdorCon supposedly happened in 1997, how come the characters looked modern? Blah... blah... bleh... bloo... - Joshua 17:58, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
Here's yet another problem with all this: we haven't even taken into account the children's book era; i.e., the era in which Free Country USA was ruled by a svelt, young Prince of Town and when Senor Havin' a Little Trouble and Mr. Bland were by far the most popular characters. Try to synthesize that in with the rest of this timeline and it just doesn't make sense: Supposedly Homestar met Strong Bad during this era (according to flashback), yet they also knew each other in Roman times and in high school... My point is that chronology just doesn't work correctly in this cartoon and that no real timeline is possible. Heimstern Läufer 02:09, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Well it's not supposed to be a real timeline as such, it's just supposed to chronicle all the different time periods. Dates don't nessicarily have to be attached to any of this stuff. It's supposed to be a quick reference to all the different periods of time that Homestar Runner cartoons have parodied. I would welcome your flashback related edits. --NERD42  email  talk   h²g²  pedia  uncyc  05:08, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Er, when I said, "Dates don't nessicarily have to be attached to any of this stuff." I didn't mean that the article should ignore the different dates that are actually spoken by characters (TrogdorCon '97), or printed. (Little Boy Saves Turtle!) I think it ought to list those, but also mention that though those dates appeared in the cartoon, they may be of questionable accuracy within the Homestar Runner universe. Or soemthing in the general vicinity of what I just said. --NERD42  email  talk   h²g²  pedia  uncyc  05:17, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I don't think anything in highschool actually happened. It was...too distrubing...and weird. So how can we have a timeline of events that probably didn't happen? – The Chort 18:34, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

There is no proof that the High School, Baby, and Paramecium stages ever happened. Otherwise, I think that this page is necessary enough to keep. teeeffoh! 22:21, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

The problem with the whole timeline idea is that every single toon is an event. Even if we tried to only list important events, that's totally up for interpretation and would lead to a lot of altering by people based on their personal opinions. As for the idea that it's used to show the different time periods, I think the chronology of the time periods is pretty clear. -Unknownwarrior33

Yeah, every single toon is an event. The idea is to put them in chronilogical order.

A compelling argument for highschool is that several times characters say they "remember learning that ... in school". --NERD42  email  talk   h²g²  pedia  uncyc  20:32, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Delete. This is covered in the FCUSA article. Rogue Leader / (my talk) 02:57, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggest possible move to History

Yeah, it's more of a history than a timeline anyway. --NERD42  email  talk   h²g²  pedia  uncyc  05:11, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

That might get very confused with this page. --DorianGray
How 'bout something like Time Periods? Reading the discussions above, it seems like the problem is that—just supposing, for the moment, all these events are "canon," if "canon" is even a useful concept, then time doesn't behave for them as we're used to picturing it, in a linear, chronological, cause-and-effect fashion. Rather, disparate times simply exist, frequently citing chronological relationships with the "now" of narrative (vaguely "before" or "after"), but not specifying how long before or after, or their positions relative to the other times. In other words, if we're going to discuss "time" in FC,USA, maybe the best format isn't a "line." More like a gallery. —AbdiViklas 09:08, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
The section on Free Country, USA (Free Country Through Time) gives an adequate overview of the time periods, and the Old-Timey and 20X6 fill in any gaps (meaning, this page isn't necessary). — It's dot com 18:43, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
The "Time Periods" idea sounds great to me - the difference between this idea and the section in Free Country, USA is that I'm thinking of covering the events but Free Country, USA only covers the places. The gallery format sounds good too. Basically though what I'm wanting to happen is a list of all the historical references in Homestar Runner. --NERD42  email  talk   h²g²  pedia  uncyc  21:07, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

But again, given that a large portion of the time periods come from "highschool" and that it's pretty clear in what order the time periods go, I don't think it's really necessary. Besides, each time period has its own page. Maybe a good compromise would be to have something on the bottom of each time period's page similar to the thing that shows the progression of Strong Bad's computers, the different stores, etc. -Unknownwarrior33 02:08, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

You mean like a template?? I guess that might work ... I was thinking more like a disambig page or something --NERD42  email  talk   h²g²  pedia  uncyc  17:10, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Refactor this page

Here's what I thought this page was going to be about before I clicked on it: as far as I know we don't have a complete chronology of the release dates for all the toons, games and SBemails weaved into one page. I think such an organization would produce a picture of the history of the H*R site. However, I also still see some merit in possibly having a small section with links based on likely chronology (no interpretation included, just general present day/ old timey/ 20x6 internal "chronologies". Then again, that 2nd suggestion doesn't seem as simple/uncontroversial/important as my first. --Stux 16:49, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

That would be be able to see a timeline with different icons for occurences of sbemails, holiday toons, puppet stuff, as well as major events, like the release of dragon, etc. Just a couple ideas, but it could look pretty snazzy. Trey56 17:24, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
This is a very, very rough sketch of what I'm thinking, but if we were really clever, we could make a timeline like the following (maybe clicking on icons would bring up the arrows), and the various entries on the timeline could link to pages. A vertical timeline would probably make more sense, though. Trey56 17:40, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

sample timeline

Seeing this page now, my original comment still stands. It's gotta be deleted. There's too much information that's subjective or assumed, it just doesn't work as a page. The timeline you're suggesting is a release timeline, one that puts That A Ghost for instance, in 2004, not 1930something, correct? In which case, H* updates 2004 etc, cover it. The one thing that might be kind of neat though, would be to refine your image tables into one for each year, and use them for images on the H* updates series of articles, to point out the notable events and toons of the year. That would require further discussions, but I think it could work out as a decent visual for the pages. Thunderbird 21:54, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
I see your point about using H* updates 2004, and yes having timeline pictures like the one above would be a great idea! However, the info in H* updates 2004 is too cut and dry to make sense of it just by looking. (Yes the pictures will help but only to a certain degree). A kind of "summary of very important events" would be quite useful for a page like this. Another option which I don't think has been explored in this site is a "categorized timeline" type of organization, where (some) toons are listed first by "time period" (old-timey, 20x6, present) and then by order of release. I'm sure someone would find good use for that information. --Stux 21:25, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Stux ... I think --NERD42  email  talk   h²g²  pedia  uncyc  16:36, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Thunderbird in thinking that this page still needs to be deleted. A timeline of the website, as opposed to of Free Country USA, might work, but this doesn't. Heimstern Läufer 23:25, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
Then let's turn this page into something like that. It's a great opportunity to turn this into something quite cool! --Stux 03:02, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Version

I've started a compilation of all the updates here. A lot of the minor stuff needs to be truncated and the formatting needs to be altered. But this is kind of the information I was thinking of placing in this page. Only easier to read and follow. --Stux 16:44, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Useful info

I think it should stay. It has great summaries of the history and future of Free Country, USA.

[edit] Final Decison

After reviewing the comments and discussion, it appears that the majority of users agree this page should be deleted. If you have anything further to say against such an action, speak now or forever hold your peace. Thunderbird 20:59, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Well if I have time I will see if I can create a new version intended for this page with the suggestions I made. However I was hoping other people would be interested in such a project and contribute. As you can see from the current version of my "preliminary page" there is just WAY TOO MUCH information to sift through if you're just a casual user looking for the website's history. This information can easily (ok somewhat easily) be condensed and the irrelevant information (such as QoW and fanstuff) weeded out. I just don't have the time to do that myself right now. --Stux 22:17, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Further discussion

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