Talk:Dethemberween Thnikkaman

From Homestar Runner Wiki

[edit] Keep?

As far as I can tell, the only reason this page exists is to resolve a pipe on the Decemberweenvent Calendar page, like how Now I'll Do A Dance got its own page to avoid linking it as [[Parsnips A-Plenty|Now I'll Do A Dance]], as well as plenty of others. Unlike most of those pages, this song already has a page of its own. The only difference between this and, say, Strong Bad is a Bad Guy is that one has a different title and gets its own page, the other doesn't and, well, doesn't. This feels to me like a strange way to determine page-havery, especially since I can't find any other music videos with a separate song page (unless the song existed before the video, and in these cases, the visuals are usually merged with the video page). I propose this be redirected to the toon. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 23:34, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

My understanding is that Happy Dethemberween is about the toon itself. This page is about the song's lyrics, kinda like how we have pages about Tablature and Halloween costumes. Yes, the page started as a redirect, but the song has been used in 3 different places and so it isn't exclusive to the original toon anymore. I don't think the overlap is large enough to make this page redundant. If anything to address your inconsistent standards for pages perhaps we need more exclusive lyrics pages when appropriate? But I guess that would then require a larger discussion regarding what counts as a song that needs a separate lyrics page? Oh here's another example of a stand-alone lyrics page: CGNU_Fight_Song. --Stux 13:57, 5 October 2023 (UTC)

There's like a 90% overlap between the song and toon information, so I don't really see what's gained by duplicating it across two pages. Halloween costumes and tablature can be easily separated from their respective toons, and in doing so, these relatively minor aspects can be presented in more detail than the toon page would be able to. While on the other hand, inversely, Dethemberween Thnikkaman cannot be removed from Happy Dethemberween, nor is there much to be gleaned from the former removed from the latter; I just don't see a meaningful distinction between the two, personally. The song's subsequent two appearances can easily be listed in the Fast Forward section, especially since they're both just parts of larger collections of H*R music, not unique to this song. CGNU Fight Song at least has two subsequent unique appearances, and doesn't have an entire toon dedicated to it; it only has like a 10% overlap with mascot. At the very least, I feel like Happy Dethemberween Visuals should be merged with the toon transcript to avoid transcribing the song the same way in two places, as we've done for songs that weren't originally released as videos. Gfdgsgxgzgdrc 06:21, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

So the issue I have with the proposed merging is this: Happy Dethemberween has an intro that is part of the toon and the song itself does not begin until the 42-second mark. Both Hooked on Decemberween and Dethemberween Thnikkaman (Decemberweenvent Calendar (Day 22)) begin with Strong Bad's line:

STRONG BAD: It happens each Decemberween though some would say it doesn't.

This is why I updated the "Hooked on Decemberween" link to this page. Moreover, "Happy Dethemberween" also has an outro, with Homestar's line:

HOMESTAR RUNNER: Uh, just so we're all on the same page here, we are just talking about Bubs with a piece of paper taped to his chest, right?... You guys?... Bubs?... Paper tape?... Anybody?...

These are also not part of the lyrics. If we merge this article with "Happy Dethemberween" at best we can place an anchor link at the beginning of the stage directions for the song and maybe reword it to make it more explicit that "the lyrics start here". We'd have to do something similar for stage directions that explicitly state that "the lyrics end here". This is putting a bit of a burden on the reader who, say, wants to follow-up on the Decemberween calendar and must figure out where the song begins and ends and then jump to the end of the page to figure out references to the song. I think a little redundancy here is alright to make the content more digestible to the reader.

Item #2: Regarding Happy Dethemberween Visuals, if memory serves I think Visuals were kept as a separate page in order to keep the main pages tidy? So far, I found that we talked about it a bit before and I point to Quickstart Overview (video) where the visuals and transcript were merged into one. I'm not sure if that's a good idea to do with "Happy Dethemberween". At least aesthetically, I'm not a fan. But it would resolve the question of "where do the lyrics end" but it might sacrifice stage directions? I guess we haven't been very consistent about this and perhaps could benefit from setting a demarcating line between separate or merged visuals pages. And I think I proposed that line in that talk page: the Music Videos category was created as a result of that discussion and perhaps answering the question "is this a music video?" perhaps might be that test. However, I'm not sure if Big/major toons should be merged that way. I'd like to reference any original discussion regarding visuals to find out why they were spun off the way the were. I'm not sure where to find that. --Stux 12:16, 9 October 2023 (UTC)