User:It's dot com/STUFF reform

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[edit] The situation

Take a look a the old STUFF. It was a jumbled mess, and in real danger of being scrapped altogether. I created this page to propose a new format, and that design went live on June 17, 2005, a month to the day after I first wrote up my idea. Yay! What follows is the archive of my STUFF proposal:

Click here to see how I think it should look.

Some people think STUFF should be eliminated in favor of talk pages, but I think a central location for fun fact decisions serves a valuable purpose: First, it's convenient to keep track of several facts at once, and because of that there is more consistency between facts on different pages.

I've given a lot of thought to how STUFF can be improved. I identified what I thought the biggest problems were and created a new format to correct them. Then I tested the format by applying it to some facts currently open.

Click on these links to skip down to the source code for a sample fact, followed by the new format. At the bottom are some real-world examples.

[edit] Problems I identified

  • It's difficult to easily see where one discussion ends and the next begins.
  • It's sometimes difficult to tell which votes have just started and which are about to close.
  • The lack of structure has allowed the page to degrade to little more than a forum where discussion is haphazard and redundant, and denigrating personal attacks are rife and rampant.
  • It's hard to tabulate the votes.

[edit] Proposed solutions

  • Each fact will be isolated in its own section. Each section will alternate colors from one to the next, and the fact itself will be highlighted within the section.
  • Each fun-fact canditate will be placed chronologically at the top of the page, without regard to the page from which it came. The page title and the time and date the fact was posted will be featured prominently.
  • All the arguments for and against a fact, as well as comments, will be grouped together. Users who have nothing useful to add to the discussion will be encouraged to merely vote and move on.
  • The votes will be user names only. They will be grouped at the bottom and numbered.

[edit] Version 2

I have resolved several issues from my first attempt:

[edit] The new format

[edit] Source code

Here is the source code that will go on the STUFF page:

{{stuffbegingray}} OR {{stuffbeginblue}}
===Item Title===
{{stufffact|The STUFF'd fact}}
{{stuffdata|[[page title]]|~~~~~}}

{{stuffargsfor}}          |
*First argument.          |---(optional)
*Second argument.         |

{{stuffargsagainst}}      |
*First argument against.  |---(optional)
*Second argument.         |

{{stuffcomments}}         |
*First comment.           |---(optional)
*Second comment.          |

{{stuffaccept}}
#[[User:First user|First user]]
#[[User:Second user|Second user]]
{{stuffdecline}}
#[[User:Third user|Third user]]
#[[User:Fourth user|Fourth user]]
{stuffendvotes}}

{{stuffrevise|The revised fact}}        |
                                        |
{{stuffargsfor}}                        |
*First argument.                        |
*Second argument.                       |
                                        |
{{stuffargsagainst}}                    |
*First argument against.                |
*Second argument.                       |
                                        |
{{stuffcomments}}                       |---(optional)
*First comment.                         |
*Second comment.                        |
                                        |
{{stuffaccept}}                         |
#[[User:First user|First user]]         |
#[[User:Second user|Second user]]       |
{{stuffdecline}}                        |
#[[User:Third user|Third user]]         |
#[[User:Fourth user|Fourth user]]       |
{stuffendvotes}}                        |

{{stuffend}}

The code above makes use of several templates.

[edit] The proposed format

[edit] Item Title

The STUFF'd fact

From: page title
Posted on: 21:03, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Arguments for:

  • First argument for.
  • Second argument.

Arguments against:

  • First argument against.
  • Second argument.

Additional comments:

  • First comment.
  • Second comment.


Votes to accept: Votes to decline:
  1. First user
  2. Second user
  1. Third user
  2. Fourth user

Proposed revision:

The revised fact

Arguments for:

  • First argument for.
  • Second argument.

Arguments against:

  • First argument against.
  • Second argument.

Additional comments:

  • First comment.
  • Second comment.


Votes to accept: Votes to decline:
  1. First user
  2. Second user
  1. Third user
  2. Fourth user

[edit] Real-world examples

back to top

The following examples are based on real fun-fact candidates, but they may be inaccurate, incomplete, or outdated as presented here. They are used for illustration purposes only.

[edit] Alternative vs. Hair Metal

The dialog at the end of the cartoon about Limozeen (who are parody of 80's Hair Metal Bands) being kicked off the charts by an Alternative band that has a girl as a bassist, etc. is most likely a reference to the fact that by the early 1990's people were tired of the excesses of Hair Metal bands and the popularity of that genre was already on the wane. Alternative Rock bands like Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins and Weezer (SP had 2 female bassists, Weezer's lead singer wears glasses) which were generally considered by many music critics to be smarter, hipper and closer to the roots of what rock is all about, put the nail in the coffin of the L.A. Glam Metal scene.

From: best thing
Posted on: 21:03, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Arguments against:

  • Way too much info. Perhaps condense this info by taking out the social commentary (basically everything after "by the early 1990s") and just stick to facts like "Smashing Pumpkins had 2 female bassists."
  • Anyone who understands the joke about Limozeen being a hair metal band probably is already aware of the Alternative takeover of the early 90s. This item is simply explaining the joke—which was a weak one to begin with.


Votes to accept: Votes to decline:
  1. ISlayedTheKerrek
  2. mibluvr13
  3. Aussie Evil
  4. acekirby13
  5. Trogga
  6. TheEggman
  7. Donny vs Universe

Proposed revision:

The mentioning of Limozeen being kicked off the charts by an alternative band with a girl bassist references the death of hair metal in the early '90s, when bands like Nirvana and Smashing Pumpkins (who actually had a girl bassist) were able to have success.

Arguments for:

  • This needs to be mentioned, because not everyone knows about exactly what happened.


Votes to accept: Votes to decline:
  1. ISlayedTheKerrek
  2. mibluvr13
  3. Aussie Evil
  4. acekirby13
  1. Lappy 486

[edit] To "T" or not to "T"?

At the beginning of the email, Strong Bad types The Cheat's name with a lowercase T. Usually the T is uppercase as it is considered part of his name.

From: cheat talk
Posted on: 02:35, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Arguments for:

  • It's true and we note it in other very rare cases when it happens.
  • A mistake on SB's part; definetly a goof.
  • It is part of The Cheat's name, and to not capitalize it would be like not capitalizing any of our names.

Arguments against:

  • TBC make mistakes sometimes, we don't need to go after every piddling little detail.
  • Save goofs for when it really matters, like in Radio where part of Strong Sad's shirt dissapears.
  • The author of the email referred to The Cheat as "the Cheat" twice. Strong Bad is making fun of the author.
  • I don't find the fact that Strong Bad forgot to hit a shift key once in one e-mail particularly "fun".


Votes to accept: Votes to decline:
  1. Jay (Talk)
  2. Lappy 486
  3. Nighthawk
  4. It's dot com
  5. upset_your_balance
  6. Joshua
  1. Cheatachu72
  2. Donny vs Universe
  3. Tony Stony
  4. tomstiff
  5. Fetus!

[edit] Strong Bad referencing Lucky?

In the Schenectady Crispies egg, Strong bad says "I hope I don't get caught!" This could be a reference to Lucky Charms, in which Lucky, the cereal making leprechaun, is constantly avoiding getting caught by the kids who want his cereal.

From: labor day
Posted on: 17:43, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Arguments against:

  • AH! COULD BE!
  • The Trix rabbit doesn't want to be caught by the kids; Barney doesn't want to be caught by Fred Flintstone while he's stealing Fred's Fruity Pebbles. So there's at least two other things he could be referencing, if it even is a reference, which I'm not so sure it is.

Additional comments:

  • Why does Strong Bad say this if its not a reference?


Votes to accept: Votes to decline:
  1. ISlayedTheKerrek
  2. Beatfox
  3. AtionSong
  4. the spludge
  5. Upset_Your_Balance
  6. Tehngion
  7. Dasrik
  8. Donny vs Universe
  9. Tony Stony
  10. The_Pardack
  11. Joshua
  12. It's dot com
  13. tomstiff

[edit] Elijah Wood

A search for "blue ones" at images.google.com displays a picture of Elijah Wood.

From: Bug In Mouth Disease
Posted on: 17:09, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Arguments for:

  • Many people like "strange but true" facts.
  • You wouldn't expect to find the picture using that particular search.
  • It's almost the very first result.
  • Elijah Wood is well known.
  • The picture is kinda creepy, qualifying as "nothing pleasant".

Arguments against:

  • Not particularly relevant to H*R.
  • Intriguing as it may be, this simply isn't the place for it.
  • "It's kinda weird" is not enough reason to include it.


Votes to accept: Votes to decline:
  1. It's dot com
  2. TK600
  3. Tony Stony
  4. Dingell
  1. Jay (Talk)
  2. Tehngion
  3. User: Lappy 486Lappy 486
  4. Beatfox
  5. Donny vs Universe
  6. tomstiff
  7. Lucres
  8. GregHosting

[edit] Whom made a mistake?

When the Announcer says "whom", in an attempt to sound sophisticated, it is grammatically incorrect. As the pronoun that would go there is not "Him shot Caleb" but rather "He shot Caleb", the question should use "who".

From: Bug In Mouth Disease
Posted on: 09:37, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Arguments for:

  • This is true and worthy of note.
  • The grammatical use of "whom" isn't exactly widely known, and while most will realize that it's wrong, they may not get WHY its wrong.
  • Not every joke requires an explanation, but this is worth a mention.
  • Strong Bad is famous for his anal-retentive attitudes on grammar yet he does not react to this common mistake.

Arguments against:

  • TBC were probably under the impression that we should already know this, as that's the joke; it's pretty obvious.


Votes to accept: Votes to decline:
  1. phlip
  2. tomstiff
  3. It's dot com
  4. Donny vs Universe
  5. TK600
  6. Upset_Your_Balance
  7. Tony Stony
  8. Dasrik
  9. Donny vs Universe
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