Talk:NYU Talk - 1 Mar 2005

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[edit] Wowzers

I'll be personally attending this event tomorrow. And I'll be taking photos galore. If anyone is interested, the Kimmel Building is located at 60 Washington Square South. I'm very, very, very excited. Does anyone else plan to attend? Perhaps we could meet or something. -- Tom 18:10, 28 Feb 2005 (MST)

You should bring a video camera with you, so we can possibly do a transcript. That would be sweet.
I wish I could go, but sadly, I cannot. It would rock to meet you, though. :) →[[User:FireBird|FireBird]]

Oh man! I wish I could go. I only live 40 minutes away from the city, but I have my theater group! (That's fun too.) I second on the idea about video taping it for the transcript (as long is it's okay.) I wonder if you'll get to meet TBC!!! →evin290 18:22, 28 Feb 2005 (MST)

[edit] Additional info

I was able to find some additional info here:

Program Board Presents:
Tuesday, 3/1, doors at 5:45pm
Kimmel Center, Shorin Performance Studio, 8th Floor

A Date With Homestar Runner is a presentation by the Chapp
brothers & their video guy Ryan. There will be an awesome
puppet video shot around campus, your favorite cartoons and a

On Sale NOW at Ticket Central!
Tickets $3 with NYU ID, $4 with gov’t issued ID.
Must have NYU ID to obtain 'advance' tickets at Ticket Central.
Limit 2 'advance' tickets per NYU ID. 

So yeah, I'm stoked. -- Tom 20:46, 28 Feb 2005 (MST)

I sure wish I could go. Bring a video camera! →[[User:FireBird|FireBird]]
Who are the "Chapp brothers"?? — InterruptorJones[[]] 08:38, 1 Mar 2005 (MST)

[edit] Update

Okay dudes, here's the scoop. After quite an adventure today, I managed to collect a whole bunch of video and some photos. I'll be doing my best to convert and upload the video so that you all can view and transcribe it. I learned quite a bit today, and I know you are all going to love the video. I'll keep you posted. -- Tom 23:57, 1 Mar 2005 (MST)

Ooh... I can't wait. →[[User:FireBird|FireBird]]
How did you get the video? Did you watch the show?? →[[User:socetew|socetew]]
Yeah man, I managed to buy two ticket stubs from some guy. (He was somehow able to get back in with his NYU ID, and I was able to get in with the stubs.) I paid quite a pretty penny too. But I'd have to say it's the best forty bucks I ever spent! -- Tom 09:10, 3 Mar 2005 (MST)
Ooooh!!! *steams* I want ticket stubs! I WANT TICKET STUBS!! →[[User:socetew|socetew]]

I'm all tingly! Good work Tom. - Dr Haggis - Talk 17:39, 2 Mar 2005 (MST)

As am I. Not just good work -awesome work. Awesome work, Tom. →[[User:FireBird|FireBird]]
Thanks guys, but just wait until you see this thing! It's totally cool. -- Tom 09:10, 3 Mar 2005 (MST)
Can't wait for the video! Totally cool, eh, Tom? So "totally cool that we don't even know it's totally cool" kind of cool? icon_mrgreen.gif --The Paper 09:23, 3 Mar 2005 (MST)

[edit] Introduction: Doing a very crappy job

I'm sure that this summary will ultimately be replaced by a more accurate chronology of events and even a transcript. But for the time being, I went ahead and partially re-wrote the following:

Matt and Mike did a very crappy job introducing themselves and instead opted...

Feel free to change it back to how it is above. I just prefer not to use such slang (e.g., "crappy") - just trying to reduce the use of the colloquial in the article. --The Paper 11:44, 3 Mar 2005 (MST)

It is not a colloquialism, it is a slang term. —woddfellow2| 19:12, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Video and write-up

Okay, here we go:

-- Tom 21:14, 6 Mar 2005 (MST)

Video's not working. Tips? →[[User:FireBird|FireBird]]
Yeah, All it's showing is a bunch of (seemingly) random symbols. What's a torrent anyways? →evin290 21:26, 6 Mar 2005 (MST)
That's a third strike from my try too. And I was so looking forward to the video too! I want to see the bouncing eggs! Oh well, I'm sure the man with the plan will find a way... [[User:Thunderbird L17|⇔Thunderbird⇔]] 21:33, 6 Mar 2005 (MST)
Oops. Okay, since neither the Wiki nor I have infinite bandwidth to spare, I've decided to user the BitTorrent protocol to distribute this file. Simply put, it works like this:
  1. I have a big AVI file on my computer.
  2. I create a special ".torrent" file for this AVI.
  3. I upload the torrent file to my server and link to it from my web page.
  4. You download this torrent file.
  5. Your torrent handling program takes this file and uses it to contact my torrent handling program.
  6. You start downloading the file from me. As you download, you also upload to others downloading.
Yeah, not the best explanation, but everything you need should be in that Wikipedia article. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. -- Tom 22:02, 6 Mar 2005 (MST)

Which Torrent handler do you recomend? - Dr Haggis - Talk 22:07, 6 Mar 2005 (MST)

I use BitComet. -- Tom 22:21, 6 Mar 2005 (MST)

Thanks a lot for making the video. Now for the problems: I've noticed that the torrent uses the UDP tracker protocol extension, and thus is incompatible with most older (and some newer) clients. I also can't seem to connect to anyone except the seeder, and the download is excruciatingly slow, less than 1 kBps. At this rate, I estimate that it will take at least 19 days to complete. Am I the only downloader? - Meneth 22:35, 6 Mar 2005 (MST)

Well, I'm the only uploader. Any suggestions? -- Tom 23:06, 6 Mar 2005 (MST)
Okay, I've never been much for computer problems being explained with bits, bytes, bandwidth and whatnot, so I'm hoping someone can help a layman (correct spelling?) like me. I downloaded the BitComet program, but what do I do now? I also downloaded the video file, which took about 10 seconds and came in as a Real Player file. So what do I have to do to acquire the actual video, or download it, or view it or whatnot? Thanks alot for getting it though Tom. At least it's out there... Somewhere... EDIT: Never mind, I think I got it figured out. It'll take a while, possibly days, right?
Hmmmmm... It says the time remaining is 99:99:99. Any suggestions? (I think I got the same problem as Meneth) [[User:Thunderbird L17|⇔Thunderbird⇔]] 22:50, 6 Mar 2005 (MST)
It sounds like your browser thought the ".avi.torrent" file was some other file. I'm guessing you renamed it "TBC_at_NYU_1_Mar_2005.avi.torrent" so BitComet should was able to open it. And yeah, it's going to take a long time. But the more people that download/upload, the faster it will go. -- Tom 23:06, 6 Mar 2005 (MST)
This is going to take a long, long time. →[[User:FireBird|FireBird]]
Yeah! After about 12 hours, I'm up to 1%!!! Only about a month and a half more, and it should be done! Oh well, better than nothing. At least I'll have something to look forwards to in the distant future... EDIT: 7:42 Pm another 12 hours later, and it's up to 1.1%. Maybe I should re-upgrade from 'Lite' Speed to 'Light' Speed... [[User:Thunderbird L17|⇔Thunderbird⇔]] 11:44, 7 Mar 2005 (MST)
I spent about 5 minutes at it (at the moment, I've uploaded about 32KB and downloaded about 18MB) - So it seems like I'm getting the better deal, and it doesn't seem fair to other users - I'm sure that with more and more users connected, the rate at which we can download the file as a group will go up. I've seen the number of "Connected Peers" grow from four to eight (with a maximum of 14). So it looks encouraging. Just as the wiki is a collaborative effort - so is the idea of bit "torrenting" - Like Thunderbird, I hope I can get past that 1%. My percentage of the 1.66GB AVI file seemed to rush quickly to 1% and then my transfer rate dropped to zero after that (and for quite some time I might add). --The Paper 16:25, 7 Mar 2005 (MST)
Update: Can any experienced torrent user (I'm using BitComet) explain why the following "one percent" situation is occuring? view 1.0% screenshot here 3 hours later - 1.1% --The Paper 20:51, 7 Mar 2005 (MST)
That's because the swarm (the set of downloaders) has higher bandwidth than the uploader. - Meneth 10:27, 8 Mar 2005 (MST)

Could you put the file up on the Gnutella network? - Dr Haggis - Talk 20:19, 7 Mar 2005 (MST)

That wouldn't be faster, unless you've limited your upload speed in BitComet. Come to think of it, a more likely explanation for the low speed (even a 28k modem should be faster) is that you have other torrents and/or p2p apps that hog your bandwidth. - Meneth 10:27, 8 Mar 2005 (MST)

I'm not running any other p2ps or other torrents. This 1kB/s stuff is killer. - Dr Haggis - Talk 22:20, 8 Mar 2005 (MST)

The torrent tracker seems to be down, is it just me? --tmbg37 20:55, 7 Mar 2005 (MST)

It's just you. Or your client, if it doesn't support the UDP tracking protocol. - Meneth 10:27, 8 Mar 2005 (MST)
I don't think the tracker is down, tmbg37. The tracker is on a delay but it has continued to function - at least for me anyway. I've been connected since 8:30PM yesterday and so far I see about 9 users connected and all of them have what I have - 3.5% of Tom's AVI file. --The Paper 10:31, 8 Mar 2005 (MST)
I'm sitting pretty on 4.3% myself, though it looks like everyone else is also around 4.3 or 4.2. Ugh... someone join the chat. I'm lonely. →[[User:FireBird|FireBird]]
I'm at 4.6% after 25 hours. Who-who. I guess this works great if you are the last person on the planet to download something and not one of the first 20 - Dr Haggis - Talk 23:15, 8 Mar 2005 (MST)
I've got a 4.8% chunk thus far (been connected for more than a day now). This torrent stuff is so...pretendous. --The Paper 22:41, 8 Mar 2005 (MST)
I just realized it's somehow been off for the past day or so, since I rebooted the computer. Oh no, I've falled behind! I'm only at %4.1. I can't help but feel I'm caught up in some kind of Internet Dowloads pyramid scheme... [[User:Thunderbird L17|⇔Thunderbird⇔]] 18:08, 9 Mar 2005 (MST)
I'm at 5% and downloading pretty quickly-about 256 kb/s [[User:fahooglewitz1077|fahooglewitz1077 | Talk]] 08:36, 12 Mar 2005 (MST)

Now I'm near 13% and at 300 kb/s. [[User:fahooglewitz1077|fahooglewitz1077 | Talk]] 08:44, 12 Mar 2005 (MST)

I'm at 20%. Gosh, this thing's gonna take a while! Kilroy/talk[[]] 23:19, 12 Mar 2005 (MST)

[edit] Seed problems?

Have we lost the seeder for the torrent? There's no reason it should be taking this long to download the file, and all the peers seem to have the same 3.5%. Torrents are only fast if different peers can obtain different parts of the file... (connected for 23 hours now on a T1 line, no other bandwidth hogs running)

I'm still here, and I never shut off the computer or disconnect by my own will, so don't worry about that. Is there some way I can set the thing to upload faster? -- Tom 14:41, 8 Mar 2005 (MST)
Use BitComet's Preferences dialog. Under Connection, check the Global Max Upload Rate. Under Task, check the Maximum upload rate per task. You can also check the Task Specific Settings. If that doesn't help, use NetLimiter or a software firewall (I recommend Kerio Personal Firewall) to make sure that there aren't any other tasks taking up all your bandwidth. - Meneth 17:31, 8 Mar 2005 (MST)

You could probably not use the torrent at all. You could split up the file into, say, 10 minute segments (or shorter, or longer.) Have that up for download. After a day (when almost everybody who wanted it had already gotten it) Upload the next segment, and repeat that process until everyone has everything. It will take long, but it won't be as complicated or annoying as this torrent stuff.

I also have another idea, but I'm not sure it'll work. Could you make the .AVI into a flash file? Would that make the file size smaller? →evin290 15:03, 8 Mar 2005 (MST)

It could, but recoding the .avi with a smaller bitrate would have the same result. In both cases quality would suffer. - Meneth 17:31, 8 Mar 2005 (MST)

To all those who have the complete file: Please keep your torrents open! And could someone please reencode it into something smaller? MPEG-4 anyone? I don't care so much for video quality I just want to know what happened (and I don't mean the writeup).

I'm so frustrated trying to get this video! Every client I use either at work or home does not connect to the tracker using the UDP protocol. Am I missing something? I even used BitComet which was recommended above. --Scooper12 08:49, 5 Apr 2005 (MDT)

I think the problem is that people are no longer seeding. After all, the file went up about a month ago, and I'm guessing there's been a rather limited audience.
This is a disadvantage of Bittorrent; since there's no central server, there's no guarantee that there's a seed available.
It might be an idea to create a smaller, more compressed version with VirtualDub and put it up here - of course, even that could be a lot of bandwidth, especially at first.
If it can be compressed low enough, there's also the option of creating an account on another webhost with unlimited bandwidth. B-one is quite cheap, and if someone creates a small personal site around it (and possibly divides it into segments), it won't be in violation of their ToS. :p
If we were to do that, the price for a .com/.net/.org domain and hosting would be €70,80 per year, plus €30 in initial setup fees. Using a different domain, we can get it lower - such as €58,80 per year and €18 in setup fees (.de/.nl), or €60,80 per year and €14,75 in setup (.dk)
(For reference, €1 is currently ~1.29 USD.) --Pidgeot (t) (c) (e) 16:10, 5 Apr 2005 (MDT)

[edit] Encouraging Milestone

"First and 10" - See screenshot. I shouldn't brag about being the first "leecher" to have 10%. This is, however, encouraging as I've been connected for about three days and have one tenth of the desired AVI this rate, I see just about everyone drawing off Tom's 'seed' to have all 1.66GB in a month. Does that seem reasonable? ...Or will it (the rate) pick up? --The Paper 11:26, 10 Mar 2005 (MST)

[edit] Gotta Break 4:40(%)

...and we did! Nearly all of my peers are past 40%, and some are heading toward 50%. Despite having an Average Download Rate of 1 KB/s (on my machine, it say within 99h:99m:99s), it seems that the average rate of 3% a day has been blown away - at least that's what I've witnessed (as I had 19.5% of the file last night and now have 46.5%, quite a difference for just overnight!) Now, I know for sure that it won't take a month to see the treasure Tom recorded for us and himself - 20 minutes of Matt and Mike signing autographs until his camera's battery died and then what we believe to be the entirety of the performance - something to look forward to. --The Paper 22:18, 12 Mar 2005 (MST)

I'm 45.6, nearly half way. My estimite says about 17, 18 hours left, which'll be awsome if it's right. [[User:Thunderbird L17|⇔Thunderbird⇔]] 13:09, 13 Mar 2005 (MST)
60.1 now. Man, I can't wait until it's over. My bandwidth's getting murdered. Anything I try to download takes forever, so I've been putting off all of my other downloads. [[User:Thunderbird L17|⇔Thunderbird⇔]] 19:34, 14 Mar 2005 (MST)
60.1 here, too. More than half way there! →[[User:FireBird|FireBird]]
70.1% as of this morning. Too bad partially downloaded AVI cannot be viewed - otherwise I imagine the bulk of the transcript would have already been posted in the article. --The Paper 09:30, 16 Mar 2005 (MST)

Actually, partial AVIs can be viewed using VLC. However, it doesn't work very well with torrented files unless one has over 90% or so. I tried it just now and got only a few seconds. By the way, has the tracker stopped working for you? I can't connect to it, or any peers. Meneth 11:07, 16 Mar 2005 (MST)

Woah, you're right. I've got 72% and have watched about 15 mins so far. It's a bit choppy but great stuff. -Jonathan
70%. Getting there... I haven't watched any of it though, wanna watch the whole thing in one big chunk... [[User:Thunderbird L17|⇔Thunderbird⇔]] 23:59, 16 Mar 2005 (MST)
Well, I managed to watch an hour. I think it's all there, apart from many frames and bits of sound between bits already there. So I think you can watch it all but until more is downloaded it will be very choppy. -Jonathan
Correction, I was wrong. Since yesterday I've got 25 more mins. There is some amazingly cool stuff in there so I couldn't wait. :P -Jonathan

77%. Man, I need to finish this soon. Torrent just isn't designed for Lite Speed internet access. My bandwidth is dying a slow and painful death. At least the rest of my family can't understand why it's been running so slow and buggy lately... Heh heh... [[User:Thunderbird L17|⇔Thunderbird⇔]] 17:33, 17 Mar 2005 (MST)

95%. Hopefully by tomorrow morning it'll be done and finished. [[User:Thunderbird L17|⇔Thunderbird⇔]] 02:11, 20 Mar 2005 (MST)

[edit] T-Bird's Code Problems

Okay, I finished it, but have been trying for like 20 minutes to play it. Am I missing something? Do I have to convert the file from .avi.torrent to something else or something? I'm so close, and yet so far... [[User:Thunderbird L17|⇔Thunderbird⇔]] 19:37, 20 Mar 2005 (MST)

It should end up as a straight AVI file, named "TBC_at_NYU_1_Mar_2005.avi". Is that what you have? -- Tom 11:49, 21 Mar 2005 (MST)

Yes, that's the file name. But I try to play it using Windows Media Player, and get this:

Windows Media Player cannot play the file.
The file is either corrupt or the Player does not
support the format you are trying to play.

Don't tell me I have to do it all over again... Any ideas? [[User:Thunderbird L17|⇔Thunderbird⇔]] 16:49, 21 Mar 2005 (MST)

Hmm, do you have the right codec? I think you should be able to set Windows Media Player to download it. I used the XviD codec, so you'll just need a XviD mpeg4 decoder.. -- Tom 17:28, 21 Mar 2005 (MST)
I searched Google, found a 'XviD mpeg4 decoder', I think, and tried my best to decode it. Could I be doing something wrong there? I also downloaded a 'GSpot Codec Information' thingie, following an Faq, which basically tells me everything about my video file, and it looks like it could somehow have become 'TBC_at_NYU_1_March_2005.avi.avi', with two avis. Is this possible, or am I reading it wrong? The file size is apparently '68,778 bytes', so is this the right size, or is the file really incomplete like Media Player keeps telling me? If any of these potential problems are the case, are there any ways to fix them? I'm not much of the computer code kinda guy, and I'm getting kinda lost in all of this. Any help from anyone would be greatly appreciated, and all previous help is also appreciated and thanked for. Thanks. [[User:Thunderbird L17|⇔Thunderbird⇔]] 19:32, 21 Mar 2005 (MST)
No no, you don't need to do any decoding. The codec will just be installed so that your video player can decode it. This codec here should be what you need. -- Tom 09:28, 22 Mar 2005 (MST)
Yea, that's the one I already got, and it's still not working? Is 68,778 bytes the correct file size? Any other ideas? [[User:Thunderbird L17|⇔Thunderbird⇔]] 16:37, 24 Mar 2005 (MST)
Your problem is that the file you're trying to play is the .torrent, not the .avi. (Windows has a tendency to rename files with "dual" extensions upon download.) The movie should be in the folder you specified in your BitTorrent client. -- 04:48, 25 Mar 2005 (MST)
Wow. I'm really stupid., I love you. Seriously, you have made me so happy. THANK YOU!!!! [[User:Thunderbird L17|⇔Thunderbird⇔]] 09:44, 26 Mar 2005 (MST)
Hey, no problem - after all, SOMEONE had to help. :P --[[User:Pidgeot|Pidgeot (t) (c) (e)]] 10:59, 28 Mar 2005 (MST)

[edit] Recompress?

1.6 gigs is a little big for a video, I don't know how long the video is but it's pretty common to have 2+ hour movies at under 700 megs, so it would be much more convenient for most people to compress the video more. Just a thought ... ---JZ

It's over 1 hour 25mins long. That's all I know. -Jonathan

[edit] AIM?

Would someone who has copies of the video on their computer volunteer to meet me on AIM at some point? Please let me know. -- The Brothers E

Sure Erinn. Shoot me an email with your AIM thingy and we can talk. -- Tom 17:45, 17 Aug 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Split

To make the file smaller, try to split the video to different files. -- 13:41, 24 Aug 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Transcribing the video

Well, the video is a heckava long thing and the transcript will be aquard how it is right now (before presentation/prsentation) so here's my idea.

Have 2 completely seperate transcripts, "The Lobby" and "The Talk" or something, and split 'The Talk' up into about 1000 mini sections, like, "Stinkoman 20X6" "Peasant's Quest" and "Bubblegum Comics" to help organize the sections of the talk itself, obviously in order.

Also, if we do split up sections, using the talk page here we can pretty much, like, 'take dibs' on sections as this is one thing that I don't think one person can transcribe.

Opinions? -Jonathan

I concur. Can you think of a way (besides the mini sections) to divide this article up without resulting in a 'heckava' long page? Or are you thinking we need to split this into several articles (i.e., one called 'NYU Talk - The Lobby' & NYU Talk (as it is now)? If we decide to keep it as one complete article, some may lean towards restricting the transcipt to just dialogue from the actual talk. However, some interesting questions are asked of TBC before the talk starts, so I don't know how to leave it. --The Paper 22:23, 18 Mar 2005 (MST)
I'd like to keep this as one article. The sections seem like a good idea. -- Tom 11:00, 19 Mar 2005 (MST)
From a wiki organizational standpoint, I will agree with you that limiting the transcript of this event to one article is the best thing to do. However, I must bring to light something somewhat obvious here - when it's all said and done (err, listened to and written), what you recorded for us contains one hour and 54 minutes worth of video. Granted, not all of it is occupied by dialogue, but nonetheless, there will likely be much more than 32 kilobytes of text on this page. I know that my browser won't 'crap out', but I do know that strange things happen with extra long pages and this one is destined to be anything but short. --The Paper 02:44, 21 Mar 2005 (MST)
You're right. Let's see how it goes before we make make different articles though. -- Tom 11:47, 21 Mar 2005 (MST)

[edit] Taking Dibs

Me and many others have now managed to finish downloading it, and transcibing a 2 hour video is not a task for 1 man. I vote we take dibs on all the different sections of this to transcribe and then everyone does certain parts. I mentioned this above but I think now is the time to actually set up the dibs. How about a list of everything in order and you edit and put your name next to it with "Taken by (whoever)" Let the VERY BIG TRANSCRIBING THING BEGIN! -Jonathan

As it stands now, I've got most of the actual "talk" part completed (saved on my computer, but I won't publish into the article until I've doublechecked what I've typed.) As for "taking dibs", I can handle everything up to (an including) the preview for Stinkoman 20X6. However, I would encourage those that have 100% of the file to verify the "In the Lobby" transcript that is currently on the article - I just realized that the bits and pieces that I watched when I had 78% of the video were a bit mixed up so the dialogue is slightly out of order and some is missing entirely. Thanks! --The Paper 18:27, 20 Mar 2005 (MST)
I took dibs on transcribing this event nearly five years ago. That's right, we're talking half a decade. There is simply no excuse for why this hasn't been completed by now. Granted, I have been out the Homestar loop since June 2007, but I still aim to finish the transcription. For history's sake, was still in the early stages of development when I first obtained the video. I do plan on uploading segments of this event in the near future. It won't take five years this time. Promise. —THE PAPER PREEEOW 12:22, 15 March 2010 (UTC)
Nice seeing you here! I know some people here are straining to transcribe something new. Can you upload it to a site that doesn't limit you like Google Video, so anyone can see the whole thing and help transcribe? Elcool (talk)(contribs) 14:38, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
Haldo, fellow sysop. That's the ultimate plan, but for now I've chosen four dialogue-laden sections located here. —THE PAPER PREEEOW 18:25, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
I'm happy to see that you edited it a bit. Thanks. I'd prefer that the conversations I had with my friend and all of the other bad footage was not floating around on the Internet in its entirety. -- Tom 03:22, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
Looking back, I should have obtained your permission before uploading any of it. I will remove all the clips without hesitation if you prefer. The editing program introduced terrible compression artifacts and doesn't do your footage justice. —THE PAPER PREEEOW 04:15, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

[edit] Posters

At the actual NYU thing, before the whole dealy started, they were handing out posters to sing. They read:

The whole poster looked like the Tandy monitor, and there was a dim reflection of Strong Bad's mask on it. Also, Strong Bad was standing next to all the type.

See poster.jpg from Brian Jaworski's writeup for a picture. -- Tom 21:46, 17 Aug 2005 (UTC)
Hey, the link won't work. Any tips? Like, someone already saved the .jpg? OpenSourceGreg 08:24, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Transcribing Change

Hey TBird, if we are going to do this like Flashforward, Should we change the section about before the confrence or whatever? --Dacheatbot · Communicate 20:29, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Censoring

The following discussion was moved here from Talk:NYU Talk - 1 Mar 2005 (censored) after it was decided that a censored version of this article was unnecessary.

[edit] Overboard?

Isn't it taking it a bit overboard to create separate articles in this case? — It's dot com 03:55, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I don't believe that "hell" needs to be censored. Loafing 04:08, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
I agree, also. Hell isn't much of a swear. Numa Numa
Yeah. Just a "rude or vulgar language" warning should be more than enough.--.Johnny Jupiter! talk cont 04:24, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
We don't have a warning on Teen Girl Squad Issue 3 for when Cheerleader says, "Well, I think it's hella tight." So I see no reason to either censor the article or add a warning to it. Trey56 04:31, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
For that matter, there's no warning on Hell.--.Johnny Jupiter! talk cont 22:35, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, when it refers to the place (as this does), it's not a swear anyway. --DorianGray 23:03, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I, the creator, went overboard. Seeing as "hell" in this context doesn't need to be censored after all, this article is no longer needed, since there are no others swears in it. Delete. – The Chort 20:02, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Complete delete. I'm the youngest user on this wiki and i use hell all the time.--Kanjiro talk 20:07, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Private album?

Why is Alain's album linked to if it's a private album and can't be accessed? Abelhawk 21:07, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

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