Editing Talk:Strong Bad Smiling

Dang, this is a top-notch page. Good work Miguel! {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 01:57, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
:His smile is... fetching! {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 04:25, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

He smiles through most of Candy Product, and it's CREEPY.  Geh.  --[[User:66.241.95.65|66.241.95.65]] 20:32, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

:Weird coincidence. This page (discussing how rarely SB smiles) goes up, and 4 days later we get an email full of what? SB smiling! {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 18:37, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
::I think it's an even weirder coincidence that after our discussion about whether SB's smile was so common it was no longer out of character, he didn't smile for 2 months. [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 00:36, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
== Notable? ==
With nearly two dozen appearances, I fail to see how his smile is notable... :S - {{User:Joshua/sig}} 03:52, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
:With 150 emails plus other appearance, I fail to see why not. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 03:58, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

:: Still, we should rewrite the opening paragraph, 2 dozen is much more than 'few' :D [[User:Gerkuman|Gerkuman]] 12:25, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm also unsure why this page is notable. I can understand pages like [[Strong Sad Smiling]] and [[Strong Mad Smiling]] &mdash; their names imply that their personalities are generally "sad" and "mad", respectively, and for them to smile is contrary to their general demeanors. Strong Bad on the other hand is "bad", but that doesn't necessarily imply a lack of smiling. In fact, I think that stereotypical villains smile ''a lot'', but usually because they're doing something evil that gives them pleasure. I believe that a lot of Strong Bad's smiles are of this type, which is by no means contrary to his nature.

On top of this, the great number of instances of Strong Bad smiling makes me question its importance. If it's not an uncommon event at all, why are we noting it? It just means more work to pay attention to every instance of a common event and make sure we add it onto the end of this list.

So, unless I'm missing something, I'm beginning to think that this article should be '''deleted'''. Anybody agree or disagree? {{User:Trey56/sig}} 23:05, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
:I don't think we need this page (or [[Strong Mad Smiling]], for that matter). Seeing Strong Bad smile is not exactly a rare occurrence, and it doesn't draw the viewer's attention the way Strong Sad smiling would. '''Delete.''' &mdash; {{User:SamFisher1022/sig}} 23:13, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Actually, he smiles quite a lot these days. '''Delort.'''[[User:Arkyopterix|Arkyopterix]] 11:46, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
::I count 43 instances here and 341 articles total in Strong Bad's filmography, but he ''does'' smile more often now.  I'm currently '''neutral.''' [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 18:15, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
:::Although I do think Trey56 was right about the fact smiling would not be out of character for the villain. [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 21:16, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
::::I think it's a little unnecessary for Strong Sad and Strong Mad.  Here it's just ridiculous.  Why don't we create separate pages for Marzipan and What's-Her-Face and Bubs smiling.  Or why stop at smiling?  How 'bout we create a page for every time Strong Bad sits down, every time Homestar opens a door, and every time the KOT walks in from the right side of the screen.  We're documenting common occurrences here.  Please '''delete'''.--{{User:Johnny Jupiter/sig}} 23:30, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::Ok, calm down Johnny. I agree that this should be '''deleted''', at this point, it's a common thing for Strong Bad to do. One seventh of his appearances have him doing it. It sure isn't as noteable as [[Strong Sad Smiling]], SB isn't manically depressed, and I can't remember the last time he has been a genuine villian. He's simply a normal guy now, one that doesn't really like his friends so much, what with [[Kicking The Cheat|all]] [[Strong Sad and Strong Bad's Relationship|the]] [[Marzipan's Answering Machine|mean]] [[Strong Bad and Homestar Runner's Relationship|things]] [[Pasta Salad|he]] [[Strong Bad and The King of Town's Relationship|does]]. Well, that last part was pointless, I just wanted to make a sentence out of links.--{{User:Slipstream/sig}} 04:09, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
::::::The only thing stopping me from changing my vote to delete is that 36 pages link here.  What would we do with those? [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 17:43, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::::Logically, if this page gets deleted we would have to remove the links. It seems almost everybody here agrees that SB's smiles aren't notable, so all the "Fun Facts" regarding them or referring to this page would have to be removed. All of the screenshots would also become useless, and the rest of the page links are on Talk pages, where they don't really matter. &mdash; {{User:SamFisher1022/sig}} 18:14, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::::::The reason I had to bring that up was because when I tagged pages like [[The Virus]] and [[Modestly Hot Homsar]] the main argument pointed against me was "it gets linked to a lot."  I weakly change my vote to '''delete.'''[[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 22:53, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
::::::::Then maybe we should also get rid of the page on [[The Cheat Smiling]], too, shouldn't we? [[User:MHarrington|MHarrington]] 20:41, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
I am still of the opinion that among a few hundred appearances, a few dozen instances of Strong Sad smiling, which is decidedly agaiunst character, is in fact notable. Even if these smiles have become more frequent of late, it still remains that he is Strong ''Sad'', and his showing happiness remains notable. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 20:48, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
:This isn't Strong Sad though. [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 21:27, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
::"b" and "s" are right next to each other on my keyboard. (Don't ask.) Same argument applies. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 21:33, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
:::'''Keep all.''' Any instance of Strong Bad smiling is notable; he is, after all, a bad, bad guy. If indeed it's becoming more common, then that is also significant, as it might signal a shift in his character, which we should document. (However, looking at the list, I still think it's relatively uncommon.) Furthermore, it would be a mistake to delete any of these articles. If we do, where are we going to move the information? It's unwise to delete so much data that has been here for as long as it has without moving it somewhere, because someone might have linked to it externally. These articles are a set, and they should stay together. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 21:43, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
::::I agree. '''Keep'''.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 23:00, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
:::::But why does being a bad bad guy mean he can't smile?  He just smiles for different reasons, like a mischievous, devilish, evil, laugh at my friends expense kind of smile.  He's always been like that.  I think the only reason he smiles more now is because TBC are getting more dynamic with animating his mouth.  It used to only have two shapes&mdash;rectangle and circle.  It has nothing to do with his change in personality.--{{User:Johnny Jupiter/sig}} 03:53, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
I ran some numbers, and here's my report: Several years ago, there was a sharp rise in incidents of Strong Bad smiling. Before [[for kids]], Strong Bad smiled about once every 31.3 appearances. Since then, he has smiled about once every ''3.8'' appearances. What's most notable, however, is that the rate has remained steady since that time&mdash;over ''three years'' ago. Thus, while Strong Bad smiles more often nowadays than he did back when the site was new, he doesn't smile more often now than he has in a long time. This page was created about a year and a half ago, at which time the increased rate was pretty well established, and I don't see any compelling reason to throw all this info away now. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:42, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

:After reading the above comments, I think the key to whether or not this page should be kept is determining if there is a significant series of instances in which Strong Bad smiles in a non-evil way. That is, he's "acting out of character" by not being "bad".

:After looking over the appearances with Dot com, it looks like there really are a good number of "non-evil" smiles in the list (perhaps he can provide more specific numbers), and I think those would constitute a page that is as valid as [[Strong Mad Smiling]] or [[Strong Sad Smiling]]. So, I'm beginning to think that this page should be '''kept''', with one of the following two modifications:

:#Limit the appearances to only "non-evil" smiles and adjust the lead paragraph accordingly, or
:#Divide the appearances into two sections, one for the "evil" smiles, and one for the "non-evil" smiles (with better headings).

:So, do any of those who said above that the page should be deleted think that the page would be valid if altered in one of these two ways? {{User:Trey56/sig}} 00:18, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

::Of the 35 toons where either Strong Bad himself is shown smiling or he smiles in a drawing that ''he drew himself'', 28 are what I would consider non-evil, while only 10 are evil (there is some overlap). I support dividing the page into categories to better illustrate when he is "bad" and when he is not. I don't think we should remove anything, so we'd also need an "other" category for Powered by The Cheat, fan stuff, etc. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:59, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

:::Divide the article into sections. [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 00:34, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

::::I still say delete.  Evil vs. Non-evil is splitting hairs what need not be split.  Smiling isn't out of character for a villain.  "Bad" isn't necessarily  the opposite of "happy".  Maybe he does it more now than he used to, but that's irrelevant.  It wouldn't have been unusual for him to do it in the past.  Like I said above, I personally think the reason he smiles more now is because TBC got more detailed with his mouth animation.  The fact that the frequency of smiles increased all at once instead of gradually supports this.--{{User:Johnny Jupiter/sig}} 04:07, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

:::::Doesn't the animation in a way lead the character? If you go for more detail, more emphasis, in some aspect of your life, you grow in that direction, and your personality will change as a result. Isn't it much the same that when a new element of animation is introduced and used, it will change the character? They may have only made the change in character due to the availability of another animation cel, but they chose to make it. There are times he is smiling out of evil, and times he is smiling out of genuine kindness or pleasure. I see no problem with dividing appearances on those grounds. I see zero grounds for deletion, with respect. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 23:51, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

i don't see what all the fuss is about. whther he smiles a lot or not, if there's strong mad and strong sad smiling pages, then there should be a strong bad smiling page. i say '''keep'''  --[[User:Acam30|Acam30]] 03:54, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

:I agree. And DO keep in mind there were times when Strong Bad SHOULD HAVE smiled (e.g. his mouth is still a frown when he sorta cracks up about The Cheat answering emails with "I'll gnaw your face off."). I was referring to [[cheatday]]. --[[User:Charlie Jr.|Charlie Jr.]] 16:33, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
I don't know how to ask this without making anybody sound stupid (It is never my intent to write 1 of these things solely to mock the sysops), but I actually need it explained to me why Strong Bad's evil smiles are less vilanous than, say, evil laughter.  Since my calculations reveal only 12% of Strong Bad's appearances involved smiling, I am not trying to reopen the deletion discussion either.[[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 00:12, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Strong Bad's face doesn't have a natural smile, which means that to see it any other way is very unusual. I should be surprised if someone used to his cynical frown doesn't suddenly go "Whoa!" on sight of him smiling. If you think Strong Bad's smile isn't notable enough for coverage in an article, I'd like to see you disputing the even less notable instances of [[chocolate]] and [[coffee]]. If there's no massive discussion/argument for deletion on their notability at the time I post this then we win the argument as far as we're concerned. Maybe we should have an all-inclusive article that goes into vague detail on unusual character animation in general. And that wouldn't be as informative, as this is a fan wiki documenting everything about the Homestar Runner canon. [[User:Psi|Psi]] 17:55, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

== part-time job ==

Could someone teach me how to take a picture of the ending? [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 22:44, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
:Press the print screen button, paste it into an image editing program, and crop as needed. {{User:Shwoo/sig}} 09:45, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
::Where is a print screen button?  I use Internet Explorer 7. [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 01:03, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
:::It's on your keyboard. "Prt Scrn", often in the pile of keys above the arrows. - {{User:Joshua/sig}} 01:13, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

==Colon Cancer==
I notice on Strong Bad's, Strong Mad's, and Strong Sad's smiling pages [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/Special:Search?search=smiling], the format seems to be ":" instead of "&mdash;".  ([[The Cheat Smiling]] has the em dash.)  So, what's wrong with this picture?  {{User:OptimisticFool/sig}} 21:24, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
:Fixed Bad's page. {{User:Techgeekmbg/sig}} 21:38, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

==Evil Smiles==
I counted 11 instances on the article where he smiles out of evil (or badness)
*A Jorb Well Done
*The House That Gave Sucky Treats
*Origins
*TrogdorCon 97
*Narrator
*Candy Product (he's doing destructive things throughout the whole commercial)
*The Chair
*Unnatural (he's trying to become a monster)
*Date Nite
*DNA Evidence
*Hygiene (his character is a brat)<br/>
Since he is still a bad person in these instances, should I take them offa list? [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 23:05, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
:The reason I did not remove narrator was because I thought since no one seemed to notice him it wasn't as evil as those other points were. [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 14:33, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

I was under the impression that this discussion had not reached a consensus as to whether instances of evil smiling should be deleted. As far as I can tell, Qermaq, Trey56, It's dot com and I support keeping evil smiling and re-organizing the page into section with different types of smiling. I still think that's the way to go, and we should put the deleted instances back on.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 17:56, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

:Isn't "Evil Smiles" kinda subjective? --[[User:Trogga|Trogga]] 03:00, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

==Screenshots==
[[Image:Strong Bad smiling Date Nite.png|90px]] [[Image:Secrets-smiling.png‎|90px]] [[Image:SBsmile boots.png|90px]]

Strong Bad's mouth is a rectangle.  When he smiles, one or two lines curve a little bit.  I love that this page exists, but I opine that we don't need 34 screenshots for something so similar each time.  (The same discussion could be had about each of the Smiling pages.)  For Strong Bad, I recommend three (as pictured above).  An Evil Smile, a childhood smile, and a PBTC smile.  {{User:OptimisticFool/sig}} 00:49, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
:Umm... no. There are significantly more variations than those three, and besides, we need more work on this wiki, not less. I ''do'' hope this isn't what the cleanup tag refers to. {{User:That_game_dude386/sig}} 15:31, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
::The cleanup tag refers to [[#Limits?]] {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 15:47, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
:::I should also note that OptimisticFool [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Strong_Bad_Smiling&diff=530094&oldid=524942 gave up this suggestion] long ago. {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 15:58, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

==DELETED==
Umm That one in Senorial Day does not look at all like smiling. {{User:HAJ/sig}} 20:01, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
:I think you need to watch it again.  That's one of his most obvious smiles.  {{User:OptimisticFool/sig}} 20:15, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

== Limits? ==

I know we're keeping this article to show how Strong Bad's personality has changed over the years, but noting every little toon in which he smiles is starting to feel excessive.  I don't know if it's just me, but the sight of Strong Bad grinning is starting to feel as unremarkable a part of his character as, say, proclaiming he's awesome.  I don't think we should delete this article altogether, maybe we just need to stop writing "this is another appearance of Strong Bad smiling" on every single Email page.  Should we also decide upon a cutoff year as to when it became more common for him to smile? {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 01:04, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
:Agreed. {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 01:14, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
::If we decide upon a cutoff year that preceeds 2008, should we remove any instances from this article? {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 19:23, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
:::Yep. And if we decide on a cutoff year, this article might need to be renamed to something like '''Strong Bad's Personality''' and include other aspects of his personality changing, like his saying "Holy Crap" less and going from the archenemy to the cynical good guy of sorts. It may even need to be merged with his character article. But that doesn't have to happen; just some ideas. -{{User:Brightstar Shiner/sig}} 22:22, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
I've done the math.  Strong Bad's appeared in 28 toons this year, and smiled in 12 of those 28. (I only counted cartoons that played on homestarrunner.com) That's almost one time for every month.  However, that is not an accurate comparison because I clearly remember times when he smiled in 2 or 3 consecutive toons.  Does anyone else think that means the gag is entering "not special" territory? (If I didn't fear it was obnoxious, I'd bring up Awesome again) {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 16:21, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
:Is there not a page about Strong Bad making outrageous claims about his awesomeness?  I feel there surely is. -[[Special:Contributions/140.247.11.68|140.247.11.68]] 17:07, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
::[[Talk:Awesome|It got deleted]]. {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 21:00, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
:::I fail to see how a gag with less than 60 appearences is overly prominent. Wanna get rid of [[Seriously]], too? Has about the same number of instances, along with [[Holy Crap!]]. {{User:That_game_dude386/sig}} 15:58, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
::::Well, I said I didn't want to get rid of this page altogether.  I just wanted some feedback on whether the article draws out its point. {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 16:02, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::A cutoff is too risky- what if this year he smiles 6/28 times? The future is unpredictable- may I suggest a chart or a Fun Fact instead of a deletion/omission?{{User:That_game_dude386/sig}} 16:12, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
::::::It's not 6/28, it's 12/28. {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 16:19, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::::In 2008, but what about 2009? {{User:That_game_dude386/sig}} 16:25, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
::::::::In 2009, the rate will probably be 50% or higher. {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 16:28, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::You know for certain? {{User:That_game_dude386/sig}} 16:33, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
::::::::::Well, it was almost 50% in 2008, and logic says the rate will only increase as the years go by. {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 16:38, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::::Logic said we'd be paying $1.75/litre for gas, but that didn't work out so well. The point is, there are better ways of noting the increase in frequency, and, if it doesn't have the longest list of appearences in the wiki, there really isn't a reason to block and delete instances. {{User:That_game_dude386/sig}} 16:48, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
::::::::::::There's also some debate as to whether or not it's out of character for Strong Bad. {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 17:49, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
:Yeah. Still no reason to ignore instances. I suggest a chart or a Fun Fact about it instead. {{User:That_game_dude386/sig}} 19:29, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
::Yeah...do the chart thing, forget the cutoff date, get rid of the "evil smiles and other instances" categorizations, and I'm good. And do it ASAP, or I'll take matters into my own hands like I [[Reg Having the Ball at the Top of the Key|did]] with merging [[Reg Having the Ball]] and [[Top of the Key]]. {{User:Neox/sig}} 01:17, 21 February 2009 (UTC) kthxbai
:::We shouldn't rush it because not everyone seems to agree on something yet.  I still think the fact it's debatable whether or not it's still out of character slightly necessitates a cutoff date, to avoid this page becoming as mundane as say, "Michael Phelps Breathing". {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 01:19, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

==Green Guy==

Would SB's costume in [[Most in the Graveyard]] fit on this page? {{User:Strongkinghomsarsmith/sig}} 19:11, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
:I don't think so, because it's just like a sheet of paper placed '''in front''' of his real mouth, which could be in '''any''' shape. - {{User:Fotoshop/sig}} 03:50, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
::No, I think it is his real mouth, since it moves when Strong Bad talks in the way that Strong Bad's mouth normally would move. Thus, I think it should be counted as an appearance. {{User:Homestar-winner/sig}} 01:31, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

==The ghost with the most==

On the [[Jibblies 2]] entry, it says that's SB's smiling to show his costume's teeth, but I think he's just being in-character. We can see the teeth when he frowns, anyway. I'd amend the article myself but I've no idea how to re-word it. - Someone who forgot his password TI:ME, 9 December 3219 (GMT)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-== Quality Page ==
 Dang, this is a top-notch page. Good work Miguel! {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 01:57, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
 :His smile is... fetching! {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 04:25, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
@@ Line 59: / Line 58: @@
 Strong Bad's face doesn't have a natural smile, which means that to see it any other way is very unusual. I should be surprised if someone used to his cynical frown doesn't suddenly go "Whoa!" on sight of him smiling. If you think Strong Bad's smile isn't notable enough for coverage in an article, I'd like to see you disputing the even less notable instances of [[chocolate]] and [[coffee]]. If there's no massive discussion/argument for deletion on their notability at the time I post this then we win the argument as far as we're concerned. Maybe we should have an all-inclusive article that goes into vague detail on unusual character animation in general. And that wouldn't be as informative, as this is a fan wiki documenting everything about the Homestar Runner canon. [[User:Psi|Psi]] 17:55, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
-Sure! Let's delete this page! And while we're at, let's delete [[explosions]], since that's as common to Strong Bad as molecules of air! And delete [[seriously]], [[crimes committed by Strong Bad]], and [[emails taken in a different direction]] because they have lists with over 25 entries, too! And then [[Baddest of the Bands|let's comb out hair with scorpions]]! Oh, wait, I forgot: Those are '''''terrible''''' ideas! '''DETELED!!!'''... that's... "DELETED" backwards... {{User:That_game_dude386/sig}} 23:53, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
-:Weather I've posted anywhere else about this page my vote-take says '''''DELTACO Er, DELETE''''' {{User:Espemon333/sig}} 00:01, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
-::You guys do realize that he's smiled 344 times since his first smile appearence, right? {{User:Platinum789hi/sig}} 7:55 15/9/09
-:::Um, that's not even anywhere near the actual number. {{User:That_game_dude386/sig}} 01:48, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
-::::Well, what I mean is the total recorded number of toons that he's smiled in. But other than that; Tru dat. {{User:Platinum789hi/sig}}
-My vote is really '''neutral'''. As it says on the page, smiling has become more-or-less a part of Strong Bad's character recently, while [[Strong Sad smiling]] and [[Strong Mad smiling]] have not. However I feel that most of the time Strong Bad is not smiling, and when he is smiling it is an occasion (and this wiki does occasions). I think that most evidence points this page towards '''staying''', but my vote is '''neutral'''. [[User:doctorwho295|doctorwho295]] 28 March 2010
 == part-time job ==
@@ Line 133: / Line 124: @@
 ::Yeah...do the chart thing, forget the cutoff date, get rid of the "evil smiles and other instances" categorizations, and I'm good. And do it ASAP, or I'll take matters into my own hands like I [[Reg Having the Ball at the Top of the Key|did]] with merging [[Reg Having the Ball]] and [[Top of the Key]]. {{User:Neox/sig}} 01:17, 21 February 2009 (UTC) kthxbai
 :::We shouldn't rush it because not everyone seems to agree on something yet.  I still think the fact it's debatable whether or not it's still out of character slightly necessitates a cutoff date, to avoid this page becoming as mundane as say, "Michael Phelps Breathing". {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 01:19, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
-::::And as umm...[[Not X|NOT]] mundane as "Michael Phelps Breathing... Weed?" Sorry, but you set me up for making a reference to recent news. But seriously, though. {{User:Neox/sig}} 05:50, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
 ==Green Guy==
@@ Line 144: / Line 134: @@
 On the [[Jibblies 2]] entry, it says that's SB's smiling to show his costume's teeth, but I think he's just being in-character. We can see the teeth when he frowns, anyway. I'd amend the article myself but I've no idea how to re-word it. - Someone who forgot his password TI:ME, 9 December 3219 (GMT)
-== How to Save the Page ==
-Someone should add another sentence or two to the intro explaining why the phenomenon is still worth pointing out.  Because now it just looks like something unremarkably common. {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 03:15, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
-:So... why *is* it still worth pointing out? These "Smiling" pages all seem silly to me... though I'm not sure what's sillier: that these pages exist at all, or when people who've openly expressed their dislike for them continue to add "This is another instance of [[Strong Bad Smiling]] to the fun facts section. If you don't like the page, why keep adding to it? Let someone who *does* care bother... -{{User:YK/sig}} 04:12, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
-::Um, I believe that's exactly what I did for all the instances that occurred between "licensed" and the "Best of Sbemail" DVD.  Left this list to people who care. {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 04:56, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
-:::Frankly, I care. Strong Bad is rarely happy, only while others are in pain (or are about to be) or when [[Senor Cardgage]] is around, and a few other cases. While it does seem common, compare it to his appearances. As of now we have ≈63 cases where he smiles. Right now the [[:Category:Strong Bad Filmography|Strong Bad Filmography category]] has about 418 articles in it as of now. This only about 15.1% of all toons that he is in where he has smiled. Though it does appear he has been smiling more and more recently. <s>I'd say after we pass the 20-25% mark we should consider scrapping this.</s> But either way, I think we should keep this article, like Bad Bad Guy said, for those who are interested on the matter. --[[Special:Contributions/75.28.91.38|75.28.91.38]] 17:16, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
-::::Wait, when did I say I want to keep it?  I just began this topic as a [[User:Heimstern Läufer|Heimstern]]-friendly way to ask, "Why should we give a care?" {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 14:38, 11 April 2009 (UTC)
-:::::So... if you aren't in support of the page... why make a topic about how to *save* it? -{{User:YK/sig}} 01:53, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
-::::::Why are we bringing me into this? I don't believe I've ever been involved in discussions concerning the merits of this article. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 04:29, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
-:::::::YK, I made this topic because the intro's negligence to point out the notability of this theme was bothering me.  It can also be seen as a challenge for this page's supporters to sway others' opinions (although initially, I did not intend it to be).  Heimstern, I brought you up because I knew if I just said something like, "Why does this page still exist?  It's just dumb recurring crap", you might have scolded me for being rude. {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 19:32, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
-==Still Too Common==
-With over sixty occurrences now, I fail to see the significance of this "running gag". [[User:StarFox|StarFox]] 04:24, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
-:The fact that some still care about this gag wouldn't bother me so much if they explained why.  Like I said, it's not ''that'' out of character for someone as evil as Strong Bad to smile. I'm also confused that some would find this vanilla gag more notable than references to (read the Inside References sections) [http://hrwiki.org/index.php?title=A_Death-Defying_Decemberween&oldid=618169 Homestar's death], [http://hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Kick-A-Ball&oldid=636721 his lack of visible arms] or [http://hrwiki.org/index.php/HRWiki:Featured_Article_Selection#HRWiki:Featured_article_for_2009.2C_week_22_.28May_25-31.29 an upcoming holiday]. {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 21:10, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
-==Where U Goin' 2?==
-Should the smiling PBTC Strong Bad in Where U Goin' 2 be counted as a smile? Because PBTC smiles are counted on the page [[The Cheat Smiling]]. [[Special:Contributions/64.12.117.17|64.12.117.17]] 21:56, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
-:Knock yourself out.  [[New Boots]] is already included on this page. {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 22:12, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
-I say we delete it. Strong Bad's smiled over 60 times now. This, along with [[Strong Sad Smiling]] and [[Strong Mad Smiling]] should go. I don't even know how anyone could view this as a "running gag." I mean, sure the Chaps made SB smile on purpose, but I don't think they intended for it to be a joke.
-:I have a problem with deleting these articles. When they were created, they chronicled rare and somewhat out-of-character events, and I don't think that just because they aren't that relevant anymore means we should throw away the fact that they were ever relevant. Maybe we could just retire them. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 14:23, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
-::Well, if there wasn't so much controversy about the term, I'd have to call Strong Bad Smiling a spoon.  In other movies and cartoons, I've seen Emperor Palpatine smile, I've seen Roy Batty Smile, I've seen every Disney villain smile, I've seen every ''Powerpuff Girls'' enemy smile, I've seen Angelica Pickles smile, I've seen Roger Klotz smile, I've seen every Tannen (with the possible exception of Griff) smile, I've seen villains from every ''Batman'' movie (with the possible exception of ''Batman Returns'') smile, and I've seen Lex Luthor smile, among others.  Heck, I can't think of a time when a homunculus from ''Fullmetal Alchemist'' ''wasn't'' smiling, except for Wrath.  I also remember seeing Mr. Burns, Eric Cartman, and Herbert smile.  By what thought process is it impossible to be bad and smiling (or cheating and smiling, for that matter) at the same time? Retirement would still be fine if it stops people from pretending this is a noteworthy occurrence. {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 16:32, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
-:::I've gotta go with Bad Bad Guy on this one. I've long wondered just how notable this was, and it's become just so darned ''common'' these days that I don't see the point. It seems every other toon these days gets "This is an instance of [[Strong Bad Smiling]]." "This is yet another instance of [[Strong Bad Smiling]]." "[[Strong Bad Smiling|Strong Bad smiles!]] I totally didn't see that one coming!" "Hey, is it notable that [[Strong Bad Smiling|Strong Bad smiles]]?" I don't even think I'd miss the other Smiling pages. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 00:36, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
-::::I feel like there was probably a point where this page should have ended... because it DID used to be less common... In my opinion we need to define a cutoff point and cleanup the page from there. I couldn't begin to tell you what a good point for that would be. {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 00:52, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
-For the sake of argument, let's say we retire these pages but don't delete them. What's the best way to do that? Would we remove all the inside references or leave them? Or what if we pared the article down a bit. Instead of including each and every time SB smiles, what if we included only those that demonstrate something about his character. By this token, Strong Bad smiling while being evil isn't notable, but the fact that he consistently smiles when Senor Cardgage is around is indeed notable. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:58, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
-:I would apreciate an article that teaches more about Strong Bad's character, but unfortunately Loafing already opposed removing the "Evil Smiles" section. I might also have to remind others that retirement is not a good excuse to avoid adding an explanation of the <s>gag</s> action's notability. {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 20:34, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
-Right now, I'm leaning towards the plan of having a cutoff year.  Here's my data:
-*In 2000, Strong Bad made nine appearances (I'm not counting Secret Pages, games, Answering Machines, or toons made for sites other than homestarrunner.com) and smiled zero times.  Smiling rate for the year: 0%
-*In 2001, Strong Bad made 15 appearances and smiled two times.  Smiling rate for the year: 13%
-*In 2002, Strong Bad made 56 appearances and smiled two times.  Smiling rate for the year: 3.6%
-*In 2003, Strong Bad made 43 appearances (including character videos) and smiled two times.  Smiling rate for the year: 5%
-*In 2004, Strong Bad made 37 appearances and smiled four times.  Smiling rate for the year: 10.8%
-*In 2005, Strong Bad made 38 appearances and smiled ten times.  Smiling rate for the year: 26.3%
-*In 2006, Strong Bad made 32 appearances (counting "retirement" as two separate toons) and smiled nine times.  Smiling rate for the year: 28.1%
-*In 2007, Strong Bad made 32 appearances and smiled eight times.  Smiling rate for the year: 25%
-*In 2008, Strong Bad made 30 appearances and smiled fourteen times.  Smiling rate for the year: 46.7%
-*In 2009, Strong Bad made 15 appearances so far and smiled six times.  Smiling rate as of this writing: 40%
-If we go by percents, I would mark 2006 as the cutoff year, since it marks the second consecutive year the Smiling Rate exceeded 20%, solidifying TBC's desire to make it a less infrequent action.  However, some users may also want to choose 2008, since it has the highest Rate, or 2005, since it marks the first time the rate exceeds 20%.  Don't be afraid to point out any errors I might have made in my calculations.  <s>Remember, we also need to revise the intro no matter what.</s> {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 17:26, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
-:[http://hrwiki.org/w/index.php?title=HRWiki:Sandbox&oldid=661561 With a 2006 cutoff year,] my opinion from before still stands.  Retirement and cutting off would be great if they stop people from pretending this is a noteworthy occurrence. {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 18:21, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
-::I think that either 2005 or 2006 should be the cutoff date, since that's when the smiles started to take off. My opinion. {{User:Theycallmefree/sig}} 18:27, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
-:::Now, BBG, surely you can find a more pactful and trofesssional way to put it. No one's "pretending" here. Some of us, myself included, do in fact think this is noteworthy, or more accurately that it ''was'' noteworthy during SB's earlier days.
-:::Still, I think this approach is going in the right direction, since things have changed and in recent toons, SB smiles all the time. Cataloging each appearance just doesn't make sense anymore. Mind you, as always, we should reserve the right to approve exceptions to the cutoff if the community agrees that it be so (I think it's been suggested that Strong Bad's recent Halloween costumes that make him smile throughout the toon might be notable enough, even after the cutoff, which seems reasonable to at least consider). But the idea of a basic cutoff is still a good way to go, I'd argue. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 18:33, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
-::::I don't support an arbitrary cutoff date. We should feel free to include any instances that reveal something about Strong Bad. I think we should go back even before the proposed cutoff dates and summarize instances that don't reveal anything about his character. The data above showing the increasing relative frequency of smiles is actually quite relevant to the article and should be included in it, perhaps in table form. Also, my questions from my last post still need to be addressed. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 18:45, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
-:::::[http://hrwiki.org/w/index.php?title=HRWiki:Sandbox&diff=661646&oldid=661609 Plan B].  I made sure to add the ones I thought added the most to Strong Bad's character, though I may have missed some and/or accidentally added some mundane instances.  Let me know.  Regarding the removal of Inside References, I think we should only remove the ones related to instances that will be removed from the page. {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 01:22, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
-::::::I've made a minor revision that is probably not worth linking to.  I decided to deem [[79 Seconds Left]] as a notable instance, as it reveals as much about his character as the "free bagels" scene in [[4 branches]]. {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 15:07, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
-:::::::It was decided [[Talk:Strong Sad Smiling#PBTC doesnt count.|here]] that PBTC smiles don't deserve inclusion more than variations of characters do, so [http://hrwiki.org/w/index.php?title=HRWiki:Sandbox&oldid=662800 I did some more removals]. {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 23:08, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
-::::::::I think the PBTC smiles are notable to some extent.  Not for the main count, perhaps, but note that TC seems to '''always''' portray SB smiling. (Note also that, while their removals have not been challenged, there wasn't input from just a whole lot of users in the discussion you linked.) -[[Special:Contributions/132.183.140.243|132.183.140.243]] 16:11, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
-Well, I'm done cutting off and retiring the page.  All that's left now is for someone to remove "Strong Bad [[Strong Bad Smiling|smiles]] in this toon" from all...35 of the pages I removed links to. {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 21:53, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
-:But removing the links/statements on those specific pages seems to imply that he doesn't smile in those toons, though he does.  (Actually, if you ask me, ''all'' such remarks should be removed.  Every sbmail doesn't need to link here, even the ones that are still listed.)[[Special:Contributions/132.183.140.243|132.183.140.243]] 16:14, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
-::But then again, in my opinion, the best way to handle this page is to just remove all those statements, but put back all the toons that were previously listed. -[[Special:Contributions/132.183.140.243|132.183.140.243]] 16:16, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
-:::What the... you deleted most of the article's instances?! '''Undelete! Undelete!''' Stop! Desist! Drop the delete button and put your hands in the air! '''''THERE IS NO SENSE IN HAVING THIS ARTICLE AT ALL IF WE IGNORE HALF THE TIMES IT SHOWS UP!!!''''' Besides, this ''talk page'' is already thrice the size of the full article anyways, so there is no, I repeat, '''''NO''''' point in creating a notority issue causing a debate that'll multiply this enormous talkpage over every future instance!!! {{User:That_game_dude386/sig}} 02:02, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
-::::I'd also like to point out that, as a whole, smiling accounts for, according to BBG's data, only 18.5% of his filmography... less than BBG's suggested cutoff percentage, not to mention some instances are him smiling as part of a costume (the two recent holiday toon, for example), are of The Cheat's doing, and, most frequently, are as a side affect of laughing. {{User:That_game_dude386/sig}} 02:27, 17 September 2009 (UTC)
-== Joker ==
-If he was dressing as the Joker, like in that Halloween special, why didn't he even give a smile? I mean, he was playing THE Joker. Why didn't those guys ever think of adding that? The actual Joker must be spinning in his grave or something right now! [[Special:Contributions/70.188.131.126|70.188.131.126]] 18:19, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
-== Most recent toons ==
-Okay, let's see if this is really too common. We'll do that by taking a look at the last few toons that had SB in them. Sooo...
-*[[Hremail3184]] - Strong Bad smiles twice
-*[[Cheat Commandos: Two Part Episode: Part 1|2 Part Episode: Part 1]] - He doesn't smile, but he has about fifteen seconds of screen time.
-*[[79 Seconds Left]] - Strong Bad smiles and giggles
-*[[Kick-a-Ball]] - Strong Bad smiles
-*[[Where U Goin' 2?]] - No smile. Again, very little screen time.
-*[[Donut Unto Others]] - Surprise, surprise, he smiles.
-I think I've made my point. Wouldn't a page like "Strong Bad's Eating" make more sense? I mean, that's almost up there with [[How do you type with boxing gloves on?]]. Any fool can smile. {{unsigned|Mr Eyeball|17:12 July 3, 2009}}
-:Exactly as I was thinking. It is very common, though you forgot [[Hremail 7]]. Hremail 7 has the old version of SB in it though, I don't know if that makes a difference. Once again, it's too common to merit an article. {{User:Theycallmefree/sig}} 17:28, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
-== Statistics Table ==
-Is there a way to get it to automatically update? {{User:Bad Bad Guy/sig}} 05:36, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
-:Not without some sort of manual input of some kind, which is what you were so hell-bent on getting rid of, I think. -[[Special:Contributions/132.183.140.243|132.183.140.243]] 16:09, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
-== So... ==
-Are we gonna like, on every toon where SB, SS, SM, and TC smile put a fun fact that says
-* Strong Bad smiles twice, and Strong Sad smiles once.
-or something along those lines for every toon? I mean it IS such a """""""notable""""""" running gag. [[User:SBE-mail Checker Dan|SBE-mail Checker Dan]] 01:10, 26 November 2009 (UTC)
-== Win-win situation ==
-Maybe we should just merge the page with Strong Bad's? Have a new section with something like: "Smiling" or "Personality"? Therefore, the page is not a stand-alone page (for the "deleters"), and the info is saved (for the "savers"). Any objections? [[User:doctorwho295|doctorwho295]] 28 March 2010
-:Agree. [[Special:Contributions/74.12.23.176|74.12.23.176]] 02:00, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
-== An-nother smile ==
-I don't <s>know</s> remember what it's but in the e-mail where strong bad brought the no loafing sign to the digital age, he smiles when he says <br>
-"BUT I DOES"
-<br>-pgj1997
-:It was decided a while back that the page had gotten out of control. They rewrote the entire page in the sandbox and decided that having every instance of Strong Bad smiling was too much, so they chose a select <s>few</s> um, several, to represent, and grouped them all together in the bottom, not listed individually. So, we know about the one in [[redesign]]; i guess it just didn't make the cut. basically what matters is: do enough other people think it should be included? {{User:The Knights Who Say Ni/sig}} 05:21, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
-<br>::We have pictures of every time strong bad smiles, so yeah pretty much
--[[user:pgj1997|pgj1997]]
-== Donut onto others. ==
-Um, didn't Strong Bad do like an Evil Smile in that toon? After knocking Homestars donut shop and making the cooker thing fall on his face. Shouldn't someone add this?
-:Why of course you can. This is a wiki; '''be bold!''' {{User:StrongAwesome74/sig}} 03:28, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
-== Non-toons ==
-Why are toons included in 2011, 2012, and 2013? I'm not exactly sure what they're referring to. I think we should just include on-web stuff. {{User:Broncotroll/sig}} 00:15, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
-:Also, I don't think we should include character variations. Why is seriously forxe included for 2010? {{User:Broncotroll/sig}} 00:19, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
-::Regarding the second one, Strong Bad does make an appearance in [[Xeriouxly Forxe]]. It's fairly brief, and he does not smile during it. {{User:The Knights Who Say Ni/sig}} 00:45, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
-== What counts as "notable"? ==
-The "other notable appearances" seems to have no clearly defined boundaries for what counts beyond "someone felt like this one fit". Unless we can define a clearer set of rules, I would say that the whole section should just be removed entirely. {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 19:43, 21 December 2015 (UTC)
-== SBCG4AP ==
-Revisiting Homestar Runiner, there seems to be scenes where Strong Bad Smiles but because of the 3D graphics it's hard to tell. Only example I can say for certain is Strong Bad smiling nervously when Strong Mad shows up to throw him out when you mess up in the KOT's records room. [[User:Guybrush20X6|Guybrush20X6]] 12:13, 23 September 2017 (UTC)