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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:46 am 
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Cobalt wrote:
Moses. definitely more influential than Jesus. Jesus had a lot of influence on the world, certainly (and, if you ask me, unfortunately), but without Moses, Jesus wouldn't even have existed (if he did actually exist, that is; and if he did, he was the son of God only in the same sense that i am).

besides Moses, and more recently, i would say Winston Churchill. the man saved the world. the planet would be a VERY different place if it hadn't been for him.

Few things bugging me:
1.Winston Churchhill didn't save the world he saved england in 1 war.
2.The planet would be similar if America Russia or Canada Kicked The Third Reich's butt.
3.Science proved all of the leaders of the main modern religions existed.
4.Christianity hasn't been all bad.
5.I am a Buddhist so I look at this from an outsider.
What way would it be different?Explain?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:51 am 
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Karmaism wrote:
1.Winston Churchhill didn't save the world he saved england in 1 war.
and if he hadn't taken on Germany pretty much single-handedly after they invaded Poland they would have gone unchallenged in the West, possibly for years, and they may very well have won the war. everything would be different.

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2.The planet would be similar if America Russia or Canada Kicked The Third Reich's butt.


Canada wouldn't have entered the war if England hadn't; they only joined because as a Commonwealth country they were obligated to go to war with anyone that England was at war with. America -- who knows when they would have entered the war if England never did? it might not have been enough to hold of the Nazis.

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3.Science proved all of the leaders of the main modern religions existed.


this is one of the strangest things i've ever heard. how exactly did "science" prove this? can you find me a reference?

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4.Christianity hasn't been all bad.


it's better than some of the human-sacrificing pagan cults it replaced, but it's done more harm than good, in my opinion.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:00 am 
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Cobalt wrote:
Quote:
4.Christianity hasn't been all bad.


it's better than some of the human-sacrificing pagan cults it replaced, but it's done more harm than good, in my opinion.


Speaking as someone who knows plenty of Pagans and whose personal spiritual beliefs are tied in greatly with Paganism, I wanted to just say that there is VERY little human sacrifice in any Pagan religions. The only group I have ever heard of to ever even condone human sacrifice are the Druids, and they are looked upon by the Pagan community pretty much the same way that Protestant Christianity looks upon Mormonism (no offense to any Mormons here).

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:02 am 
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there's no human sacrifice in CURRENT Neo-Pagan worship. in real paganism, pre-Christian paganism, there was plenty of human sacrifice. any denial of that is just Neo-Pagan revisionism.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:26 am 
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Cobalt wrote:
Karmaism wrote:
1.Winston Churchhill didn't save the world he saved england in 1 war.
and if he hadn't taken on Germany pretty much single-handedly after they invaded Poland they would have gone unchallenged in the West, possibly for years, and they may very well have won the war. everything would be different.

Quote:
2.The planet would be similar if America Russia or Canada Kicked The Third Reich's butt.


Canada wouldn't have entered the war if England hadn't; they only joined because as a Commonwealth country they were obligated to go to war with anyone that England was at war with. America -- who knows when they would have entered the war if England never did? it might not have been enough to hold of the Nazis.

Quote:
3.Science proved all of the leaders of the main modern religions existed.


this is one of the strangest things i've ever heard. how exactly did "science" prove this? can you find me a reference?

Quote:
4.Christianity hasn't been all bad.


it's better than some of the human-sacrificing pagan cults it replaced, but it's done more harm than good, in my opinion.


1.He had France and the resistance and Allied support from all of the British colonies and countries in the commonwealth.
2.If Canada was independent they would have-i think.
And Didn't join cuz Britain did because every1 else was and America saw it as a chance to prove itself and to face Japan.
3.A reference???LOOK ANYWHERE!!!-History!!they have documents and files maps etc. Anything could not exist but history has point some things out.
4.Christianity isn't something you can say "its bad" or its good there is too much history-I am sorry if i said bad or good.But Certain periods have been positive others not.
And buddy you don't know bout pagans they way you describe them as "human sacrificing" example please?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:42 am 
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Karmaism wrote:

1.He had France and the resistance and Allied support from all of the British colonies and countries in the commonwealth.


oh yeah, who could forget France. remind me again how effective they were?

and if Churchill hadn't declared war on Germany, none of the Commonwealth countries would have either.

Quote:
2.If Canada was independent they would have-i think.


and if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon.

Quote:
And Didn't join cuz Britain did because every1 else was and America saw it as a chance to prove itself and to face Japan.


America only entered the war because they'd been attacked by Japan. but if England and the colonies hadn't benn fighting against Germany, i don't know if America could have won the western front all by themselves.

Quote:
3.A reference???LOOK ANYWHERE!!!-History!!they have documents and files maps etc. Anything could not exist but history has point some things out.


oh yeah, i must have forgotten that map that clearly shows that Jesus existed. there isn't any documentation outside the Gospels that say anything about Jesus. it's not that i don't believe that, say, Mohammed and Buddha were real people. i do. but saying "science proves it" is ridiculous.

Quote:
4.Christianity isn't something you can say "its bad" or its good there is too much history-I am sorry if i said bad or good.But Certain periods have been positive others not.


yeah, and overall, it's done more harm than good. just because it does more good than harm today, maybe, that doesn't negate all the destruction it caused for the centuries before now.

Quote:
And buddy you don't know bout pagans they way you describe them as "human sacrificing" example please?


let's see: the Carthaginians, the Etruscans, the Edomites, the Celtic Druids, the Vikings, the ancient Chinese, the Aztecs, Mayas and Incas. it was staggeringly common in the ancient world.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:45 am 
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Cobalt wrote:
Quote:
And buddy you don't know bout pagans they way you describe them as "human sacrificing" example please?


let's see: the Carthaginians, the Etruscans, the Edomites, the Celtic Druids, the Vikings, the ancient Chinese, the Aztecs, Mayas and Incas. it was staggeringly common in the ancient world.


Also in history were deaths carried out in the name of Christianity--the Holy Wars, the American Revolution, the Spanish Inquisition. And just because a Christian today may see that as a bastardization of the religion doesn't mean that it makes it an illegitimate argument, because religion is always highly subjective and open to personal interpretation. So I don't think it's fair to say that any deaths are the fault of any religion so much as they are the faults of ignorant or crooked human beings.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:40 pm 
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Cobalt wrote:
Karmaism wrote:

1.He had France and the resistance and Allied support from all of the British colonies and countries in the commonwealth.


oh yeah, who could forget France. remind me again how effective they were?

and if Churchill hadn't declared war on Germany, none of the Commonwealth countries would have either.

Churchill didn't come up with the idea to war Germany they didn't have alot of choice but to fight for their lives.And France was a huge resistance off the battlefield.

Quote:
2.If Canada was independent they would have-i think.


and if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon.

All the Canadian Indpence Leaders at the time agreed with the war.

Quote:
And Didn't join cuz Britain did because every1 else was and America saw it as a chance to prove itself and to face Japan.


America only entered the war because they'd been attacked by Japan. but if England and the colonies hadn't benn fighting against Germany, i don't know if America could have won the western front all by themselves.

America was huge so was Britain-Britain more important for Europe America for the Pacific.

Quote:
3.A reference???LOOK ANYWHERE!!!-History!!they have documents and files maps etc. Anything could not exist but history has point some things out.


oh yeah, i must have forgotten that map that clearly shows that Jesus existed. there isn't any documentation outside the Gospels that say anything about Jesus. it's not that i don't believe that, say, Mohammed and Buddha were real people. i do. but saying "science proves it" is ridiculous.

I guess science is the bad word-History is better.
Many texts have been found other than the gospels and Maps of the Kingdoms line up with the mentions in the gospels.

Quote:
4.Christianity isn't something you can say "its bad" or its good there is too much history-I am sorry if i said bad or good.But Certain periods have been positive others not.


yeah, and overall, it's done more harm than good. just because it does more good than harm today, maybe, that doesn't negate all the destruction it caused for the centuries before now.

But What is harm to u-Isn't to others!And also Jesus didn't start the crusades-People did it in the name of Christianity.it isn't ttaht Jesus Gave orders.

Quote:
And buddy you don't know bout pagans they way you describe them as "human sacrificing" example please?


let's see: the Carthaginians, the Etruscans, the Edomites, the Celtic Druids, the Vikings, the ancient Chinese, the Aztecs, Mayas and Incas. it was staggeringly common in the ancient world.


Many had slaves that u mentioned-Ancient China was confucian so it wasn't pagan.Incas didn't sacrifice.The Vikings-Slaves.Mayas are the only one i agree with.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:42 pm 
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Cobalt wrote:
Karmaism wrote:

1.He had France and the resistance and Allied support from all of the British colonies and countries in the commonwealth.


oh yeah, who could forget France. remind me again how effective they were?

and if Churchill hadn't declared war on Germany, none of the Commonwealth countries would have either.

Churchill didn't come up with the idea to war Germany they didn't have alot of choice but to fight for their lives.And France was a huge resistance off the battlefield.

Quote:
2.If Canada was independent they would have-i think.


and if my grandmother had wheels she'd be a wagon.

All the Canadian Indpence Leaders at the time agreed with the war.

Quote:
And Didn't join cuz Britain did because every1 else was and America saw it as a chance to prove itself and to face Japan.


America only entered the war because they'd been attacked by Japan. but if England and the colonies hadn't benn fighting against Germany, i don't know if America could have won the western front all by themselves.

America was huge so was Britain-Britain more important for Europe America for the Pacific.

Quote:
3.A reference???LOOK ANYWHERE!!!-History!!they have documents and files maps etc. Anything could not exist but history has point some things out.


oh yeah, i must have forgotten that map that clearly shows that Jesus existed. there isn't any documentation outside the Gospels that say anything about Jesus. it's not that i don't believe that, say, Mohammed and Buddha were real people. i do. but saying "science proves it" is ridiculous.

I guess science is the bad word-History is better.
Many texts have been found other than the gospels and Maps of the Kingdoms line up with the mentions in the gospels.

Quote:
4.Christianity isn't something you can say "its bad" or its good there is too much history-I am sorry if i said bad or good.But Certain periods have been positive others not.


yeah, and overall, it's done more harm than good. just because it does more good than harm today, maybe, that doesn't negate all the destruction it caused for the centuries before now.

But What is harm to u-Isn't to others!And also Jesus didn't start the crusades-People did it in the name of Christianity.it isn't ttaht Jesus Gave orders.

Quote:
And buddy you don't know bout pagans they way you describe them as "human sacrificing" example please?


let's see: the Carthaginians, the Etruscans, the Edomites, the Celtic Druids, the Vikings, the ancient Chinese, the Aztecs, Mayas and Incas. it was staggeringly common in the ancient world.


Many had slaves that u mentioned-Ancient China was confucian so it wasn't pagan.Incas didn't sacrifice.The Vikings-Slaves.Mayas are the only one i agree with.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:48 pm 
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Karmaism wrote:
...Ancient China was confucian so it wasn't pagan.


Actually a definition of "pagan" can refer to anyone who is not Christian...meaning that Confucius was just as much Pagan as the Druids.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:05 pm 
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PianoManGidley wrote:
Karmaism wrote:
...Ancient China was confucian so it wasn't pagan.


Actually a definition of "pagan" can refer to anyone who is not Christian...meaning that Confucius was just as much Pagan as the Druids.

Pagan can also mean hailing Tribal religion not one we see today like Buddhism or Judaism


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:05 pm 
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Karmaism wrote:
Incas didn't sacrifice.


The Incas did actually sacrifice.
And the Aztecs thought they had a good reason for sacificises.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:06 pm 
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I thought they did.oh well!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:56 pm 
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Ya. You can never trust history. Well, I got a whole bunch of Horrible Histories books right in front of me so I could look it up like that!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:58 am 
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MikeyJC wrote:
Ya. You can never trust history. Well, I got a whole bunch of Horrible Histories books right in front of me so I could look it up like that!

Kk
Mike thanx for clearing that up.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:46 am 
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I now feel warm and fuzzy inside... YAY!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:51 pm 
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MikeyJC wrote:
I now feel warm and fuzzy inside... YAY!


Human sacrifice can do that too u :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:49 pm 
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I know!

...

Wait...What?!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:09 pm 
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Ok, please. Stop. Now.
If you're just going to post things like these last 4 or 5 posts, do so over PMs. These posts can be considered spam, as they add nothing to the point at hand.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:17 pm 
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Sorry.

Anyway, back on topic. I think Hitler was one of the Most Influencial Persons of all time. He managed to get an entire country to follow him.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:34 pm 
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MikeyJC wrote:
Sorry.

Anyway, back on topic. I think Hitler was one of the Most Influencial Persons of all time. He managed to get an entire country to follow him.

I think he left such a lasting impression on us.We have a day dedicated to remembrance of his war.He was smart but used it poorly.


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