Talk:Inconsistencies within the Homestar Runner universe

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Vague page description

There are lots of inconsistencies in the Homestar Runner universe; some are clearly intentional, some are probably not, and most fall somewhere in between. We already have places to note these on the individual toons' pages when they come up; why have a totally separate page for them? --Jay o'Lantern (Haunt) 00:44, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Is it just me, or is this page basically what the Goofs section in every single transcript page is for? — Lapper (talk) 00:45, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Maybe it could be a page for contradictory things in Homestar Runner? That's a little less vague. Shwoo 00:48, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Shwoo's idea might work out. This is basically an organizational thing. If I wanted to find all the inconsistencies right now, it would take me FOREVER. Being spread out among dozens of pages, I would probably never find many of them, since a search for "inconsistencies" brings up 4 results. It's just a way to make things easier to find. And that's the point right? Making information easily accessable for everyone else. · · T2|Things 00:49, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
But if you notice an inconsistency in a toon, is that not what the Goofs section is for? Why not search "goofs" and see what you get? — Lapper (talk) 00:52, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Not every goof is an inconsistancy. Looking at the goofs on the wiki, most of them are of the "Strong Bad spelled a word wrong" or "the animation looks weird" type.Shwoo 00:58, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Shwoo is right. Only major inconsistencies are mentioned anyway, and most of the minor ones are ignored. You can search "goofs" all you want, it will come up with a result for every cartoon page on the entire wiki, and that won't help you in any way whatsoever locate your inconsistencies. This page at least deserves a chance, but then again, all of my pages were deleted before they had a chance...· · T2|Things 01:03, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
I want to give this page a chance . The bits like how the Lappy have 10 MB instead of 5 MB is a good one. I'm still not removing the {{tobedeleted}} template, but I'm for this page. Elcool (talk)(contribs) 09:48, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

This is interesting. I'll bet you the Star Trek wiki (if there is one even, I haven't looked) lists at least the major things where continuity is broken within the universe. (If they don't, maybe they should....) Internal inconsistencies are pretty interesting to most people. Creators of a universe also create a world of "fact" which is bound to certain expectations; when the facts fall short of those expectations, it's clearly notable. I see this page as a place to list all the major issues where "Homestar geeks" (read: geekier than us) would argue about which way of looking at things is the one best supported by the canon. I say allow this to develop for a while; if it does, keep. Qermaq - (T/C) Image:Qermaqsigpic.png 10:05, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

If this page is kept, it should be renamed Retcons. --Trogga 16:11, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Technically, a "retcon" is not when the creators merely contradict themselves, but when they indicate that the new version of "reality" is the correct one. For example, if TBC released a toon telling how Strong Bad and Homestar were friends in their childhood, that may be considered a retcon as it intentionally changes the account from flashback. The Strong Sad navel drilling might be part of a retcon. But the disk space of the Lappy changing isn't really a retcon, by my read of its definition. And The Cheat being unable to say "Dennis" yet being able to voice characters in his animations is a close call. Additionally, not only is "inconsistencies" a bit more wide-reaching than "retcon" but is a more well-known term that will be a bit more accessible to readers not up on words not found in the Oxford Dictionary. Qermaq - (T/C) Image:Qermaqsigpic.png 00:57, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Long live this page! The more the merrier!--Theyellowdart 16:53, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
I don't consider all the site's inconsistencies as "goofs"; the main reason being that inconsistencies often appear between two or more different toons (or games), whereas goofs happen in one toon only. For example, the Trogdor-Peasant's Quest inconsistency (see article) is, of course, between TROGDOR! and Peasant's Quest. An example of a goof (or, in this case, a remark) would be Strong Sad's "covered bridge" obsession seen in Fall Float Parade, which began and ended in one cartoon. My bottom line is that there is a difference, and I therefore vote No Delort.SamSF%20sig.jpgFisher (Come in, Lambert.) 14:58, 4 December 2006
There, I just added an inconsistancy in the King of Town DVD Commentary. I think this is enough info for no deletion. Keep this page. I found it useful. --Theyellowdart 21:32, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

So is it okay to take the {{tobedeleted}} template off now? It's been over two weeks. Shwoo 00:53, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I believe that would be a good idea. Now about that moving. I don't think that the name needs to be changed.--H*Bad 03:02, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I just want to note that if you are looking for how a specific toon is inconsistent with another, it would be better to look under that toon's "remarks" section, not its "goofs" section. Bad Bad Guy 01:00, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Strong Sad's Apparel

  • There are several places where Strong Sad wears a "one-time type" article of clothing, ("The Blue Ones," "The Sturge" t-shirt, the two Geddup Noise shirts, etc). I think these should be left out in this section. The "wildebeest pheromones in his laundry" is more consistent with the whole"inconsistency" thing, because it's as though he's saying he always wears clothes (I think. Sorry, but I'm having trouble explaining what I mean.) I think there's another instance of this type of discrepancy, but I can't remember where it is... kai lyn 22:37, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
  • True dat. I made that edit. Leave it out, then... TheYellowDart(t/c)
  • Yeah. wait, why does his laundry only have to be his clothes? why not things like towels, etc.

Im a bell 01:46, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Compy screen width and length

It's been very inconsistent, through the main Strong Bad view, and through examples in replacement and huttah!. --Addict 2006 00:02, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

What I mean is the width has been 4:3'd at times and then it's a bit wider... --Addict 2006 00:03, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Hm. It's true. I say it can go on the page. Anyone else? TheYellowDart(t/c)

The chair

Here's one to add: In the chair, Strong Bad gets a new chair, but in what i want, he's back to the stool.

That's not an inconsistency, Strong Bad just went back to Stooly. --TotalSpaceshipGirl3 12:07, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Tongue or no tongue?

I just realized: In the DVD version of Homestar Runner's theme song video, Homestar sticks out his tongue while figuring out an answer for the test, but there are TONS of times when he says words with the letter "L" in them without lifting it. Not to mention Strong Mad, who had his tongue out while carving "DAGRON" on the table, but no tongue present when he says "L" words or any words with "L" in them. See also Remarks in retirement. This whole description should count as a long-lasting inconsistency, shouldn't it? -(Feb. 3, 2007)

This delves into the topic of "cartoon physics". In short, we don't know the method these "dumn animal characters" use to produce the phoneme /l/. One might assume it's the same as we do, given the presence of a tongue, but that's not necessarily the case. When two apparently conflicting facts can in some way coexist within a cartoon, that's not really an inconsistency in my mind. When they cannot be reconciled based on each simply having to be impossible given the other, that's an inconsistency. Qermaq - (T/C) Image:Qermaqsigpic.png 15:43, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


Anti Chicken-Wings

I think it's kind of unnecessary to be arguing over the "chicken wings" thing. I made this article for inconsistencies and goofs IN-BETWEEN TWO DIFFERENT TOONS, not within the same toon. That's the Goofs section. If we really can't decide, then someone should STUFF it.· · T2|Things 03:28, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for enforcing that. I thought it was just another case of crazy cartoon logic. If we counted that, we'd probably have to count the fact that Coach Z develops a 5 o'clock shadow in less than 10 seconds in Decemberween Short Shorts, or maybe even that the Brothers Strong don't bear any similarity. Bad Bad Guy 02:11, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Another thing related to this that annoyed me was that before I became Bad Bad Guy, I asked if it was OK to put unnatural on History according to Strong Bad (except back then it was Strong Bad Lore), DorianGray told me it fit "just fine" on Inconsistencies, even though it was already deleted. He didn't even tell me why he thought that. Bad Bad Guy 19:18, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Senior Prom "Inconsistency"

I would argue that it's not an inconsistency for Strong Bad to say he never wears underwear, only to be revealed wearing underwear in senior prom. I mean, we don't know how many years earlier that toon is. That's like someone saying "I never wear diapers," and being called a liar because they wore diapers as a baby. Sure, to be more accurate he could've said, "I never wear underwear anymore", but I'm still not sure. Michelle Mabelle 11:04, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

The Spooky Woods

Does it count if in Where's the Cheat, the woods are still spooky even though it isn't Halloween, but in Happy Hallow-day, they are in a gentler state?


This thread was originally two threads. The second one began here.

It's strange to me that The Spooky Woods is undetermined whether or not is it was not spooky during the day or not as for the fact that it was not determined whether or not Strong Mad was looking during the day.-- Ang the Ephemeral 4:39, 12 March 2007

Well, if no one responds to what I write I assume it means there are no objections. Bad Bad Guy 00:20, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Also, when I tried to write it in the Hallow-day article, it got deleted for the reason of "it belongs on that page." Bad Bad Guy 18:51, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Since it's not Halloween in Where's The Cheat, it might be expected from Hallow-day that the Spooky Woods on a normal night would look like a nighttime version of that scene. I hope that didn't sound like speculation. Bad Bad Guy 18:49, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

highschool

I'm a little curious if the highschool inconsistencies are still worth keeping even though it's been confirmed they aren't true. Bad Bad Guy 21:24, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Image idea

A comparison between the shotgunned Compy in virus and retirement, similar to that in the article of the latter. Give me your thought, even if it's something like, "This article doesn't need an image" Bad Bad Guy 00:49, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Or even better, Pom Pom jumping Strong Badia in Summer Short Shorts, revealing a forest to its left, and King Bubsgonzola Supreme stomping past Strongbadia in unnatural, revealing the castle where the forest should be. Bad Bad Guy 23:02, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
I just found out that was a different side of Strong Badia, so I'll go with a comparison between the Bear Holding a Shark scaring The Cheat, and Strong Bad is in Jail Cartoon revealing the Bear can not be seen from behind the fence. Bad Bad Guy 06:47, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
I kinda can't get the images myself... Bad Bad Guy 21:53, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Why not just "Inconsistencies"?

I had moved it there, but the misguided Loafing changed it back, for some reason. Is there any reason at all for the title to be the long, drawn-out, painfully fanboy-esque "Inconsistencies Within the Homestar Runner Universe" and not just "Inconsistencies"? If so, please state why here. Darth Katana X (discussionitem_icon.gif user.gif mail_icon.gif) 11:11, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

The phrase Homestar Runner universe was recently used in a sketchbook update, it's not that fanboy-esque or painful. Anyway, I think the current title works well. Inconsistancies isn't really specific enough. Shwoo 11:26, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Darth, you know very well that so far, your attempts to rid the wiki of the term "universe" have been unsuccessful. And I'm not going to start discussing this all over again. If you move pages without discussion because you think that "universe" is "jargon", then you know that the majority of the editors will oppose the move, and this is disruptive, unacceptable behaviour. This also goes for personal attacks. Consider this your last warning. Loafing 11:57, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Now, taking a step back from the whole universe issue, I believe the long title should stay. While we don't have titles such as Running Gags Within the Homestar Runner Universe, and while Inconsistencies would actually be sufficient, I believe that "Inconsistencies Within the ... Universe" gives the article an edge. The idea of inconsistencies within the fabric of the universe is way more interesting than just inconsistencies. Loafing 11:57, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
That is a very bigoted way to look at it. The article itself mentions namedrops the term "Homestar Runner universe," isn't that enough? Inconsistencies is concise and gets the point across perfectly. It doesn't take beating readers over the head to make them experience the cool atmosphere of the words "Homestar Runner universe" (which is, regardless of its canon status, jargon). Beating readers over the head with the term may also mislead them to think that it is a key element of homestarrunner.com. So, in short, any reason left to oppose its move is completely childish and unencyclopedic in every way. Darth Katana X (discussionitem_icon.gif user.gif mail_icon.gif) 15:28, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
Also, while I find your desire to give the article's name an "edge" admirable, I must oppose it as well. Should I give myself an "edge" by describing myself as a fourty-year-old football player who surfs the web in NOFX undies and has a thing for beef jerkie? No, I'd rather be thoroughly honest and describe myself as the boring emo rudie that I am. Besides, I could get in trouble for that. Darth Katana X (discussionitem_icon.gif user.gif mail_icon.gif)
I'd like to get some votes. So, uh, please vote!
Here are some reasons why "Inconsistencies" is better: 1) it's shorter, 2) it's more concise, 3) yes, they're within Homestar Runner. Duh! Yeah, I thought it was a list of alleged inconsistencies within the Bible.
Why to stick to the name I don't care to type out because it's so lengthy but just typed more by avoiding it: 1) it's more, erm, "edgy." It makes people feel like there's more to Homestar Runner than a website about a pale-skinned, alien hipster.
Votez, plz! Darth Katana X (discussionitem_icon.gif user.gif mail_icon.gif) 14:54, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Loafing. Furthermore, DKX, your one-person vendetta against the perfectly good use of the term "H*R universe" has really gotten old. — It's dot com 20:24, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

While I understand your ridiculous personal vendetta against making references to the Homestar Runner universe for its redundancy, the pharse is actually valid in this scenario. Obviously, the inconsistencies are relating to Homestar Runner. You're misinterpreting the meaning of the title as "Inconsistencies Related to the Homestar Runner Universe". If this article was just "Inconsistencies", it would be implying intra-cartoon inconsistencies, which is what the Goofs section of every email, toon, short, or anything else is for. This is inter-cartoon inconsistencies, meaning ones that traverse one or more cartoons. Inconsistencies would be too inspecific for that specific purpose. Although you may not be able to see it from your single-mindedness, the average reader of the wiki would subconsciously observe the liminal differences as they thought about what the content of the page would be. I believe I created this one, and I'm sure that I intended the title to contain "Homestar Runner universe" within it.· · T2|Things 00:40, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Darth, we're really trying to give you a second chance here. Even if you're completely and totally opposed to the term "Homestar Runner Universe", that doesn't mean you need to proclaim it to the whole world in a very rude manner over and over (and over) again. We've all had our share of things we don't like. I personally don't like that this article exists, but I didn't make a huge deal about it. I was frustrated for awhile and then just let it go. That's what you need to do. Majority pretty much rules around here, so if you're the only one that doesn't like this title (and you are), you just need to get over it and move on to better, more important things. We're trying to give you opportunities to do that, but if you don't take them, people will never respect you. -Brightstar Shiner 00:52, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

what I want

I must have read Strong Sad's Lament 5 or more times by now, and I can't find a post where he claims he doesn't dress. What date is it from? Bad Bad Guy 21:40, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Last line of the entry titled "The Curse of Keen Eyes - 08.19.04" It's on the first page. Bluebry 21:43, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
I see it now. Thanks. That took way less time than it did when I posted it on the talk page for Lament. Bad Bad Guy 22:00, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Powered by The Cheat Voices

How do we know for sure if this is actually The Cheat making these voices? It could be one of those programs where you type in the text and it says it for you. - Pants 3000

I think they said it in an interview that The Cheat voices his own cartoons. --DorianGray 18:59, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
It may have been just an idea that's now abandoned or unused. --Trogga 19:10, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, I remember reading on (I think) the Powered By The Cheat page that he did his own voices for that. I'll look into it. - Pants 3000 13:16, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

It was mentioned in this interview.

Reasons for my removal of these things

  • Old-Timey — It is debatable whether or not color exists in their universe.
    • Ballad of the Sneak claims that The Sneak is yellow like his modern-day counterpart, The Cheat, but when characters from the Old-Timey universe and other universes such as modern Free Country, USA and 20X6 travel between each others' worlds in toons such as alternate universe and 20X6 vs. 1936, the Old-Timey characters are still black and white, while other characters retain their colour in the Old-Timey universe.

This is not an inconsistancy as much as it is making fun of the differences between Old-Timey and modern day. Basically, the old timey ones can see color somehow, but do not appear in color.

This is strong bad saying it, clearly he's demeaning the king baselessly.

Same argument as before, but even more so.

  • Email cheat talk — Strong Bad claims that The Cheat can't learn English, but The Cheat went on to make a number of cartoons with English voice acting.

Speculation that the voices come from the cheat. Remember, he uses macs. Macs have better text-to-speech programs than windows, and has some pretty realistic voices. I know this, not because i am a mac user, but because the principal of my highschool, (er, high school) was. One time i got in trouble for fighting with another kid and we got sent to his office, and he didn't say a word the entire time. He had his computer talk for him. I later found out it was actually a tactic to get us to calm down. It worked, because when we left we weren't fighting anymore, just making fun of what a weirdo the principal was. Okay, long tangential rant over. Next removed fact.

  • Peasant's Quest — Trogdor says that he is invincible, but in TROGDOR!, he can be killed by touching a knight or an arrow.

People claim to be invincible all the time and they're not. The titanic was unsinkable, remember?

  • Email senior prom — After Strong Bad's pants are poofed away, he wears boxer shorts, but in New Boots, he reminds The Cheat that he doesn't wear underwear.

Duh! he DOESN'T! That's what he looks like under his pants. Just like the mask and boxing gloves are his face and hands! Just kidding. I didn't actually remove this one.

  • Email time capsule (DVD commentary) — Marzipan revealed that Homestar Runner's middle name was Hal, but in Halloween Potion-ma-jig Marzipan calls Homestar "Homestar Michael Runner".

Shortly after, she corrects herself and says that's her pet name for him. I contend that Hal can be a short pet name for Michael.

DeFender1031 05:48, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

I think most of those are legitimate. That the characters are lying is a possible explanation for the inconsistancies, not a reason why they're definitely not. I can think of explanations for a lot of the things listed on this page. Anyway, there was an interview where they stated that The Cheat does the voices for his cartoons. Shwoo 09:34, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Well, that's another issue that i've never seen addressed. What exactly is considered canon and what isn't? I personally think that interviews and DVD commentaries should be left out. They can say stuff in interviews that can be scrapped later, and they're really not connected with them directly. In fact, this line:
A 20X6 version of Trogdor, called Trogador, was revealed at the NYU Talk, but did not appear in the Homestar Runner canon until Happy Trogday was released on the third anniversary of Trogdor's debut.
appears here implying that we don't consider interviews to be canon. As for the commentaries, they are impromptu, spur-of-the-moment type of things. A forum for them to say off the wall things about each particular toon, just for the sake of hilarity. I think this topic of dual standards (or maybe lack of official standards on the subject) should be discussed further. DeFender1031 18:09, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
P.S. The only other two mentions of the word canon on this site are in best thing referring to the canon of sherlock holmes, not HR, and The Homestar Runner Mysfit-steries which says that strong bad's memories cannot be considered canon. There needs to be a category on the standards page concerning what is and is not considered canon. DeFender1031 18:12, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't think the King's castle and Trogdor being invincible should count either. It's possible the King uses that apt offscreen and that Trogdor is lying. Bad Bad Guy 02:19, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

One reason the old-timey color thing could stay is that Old-Timey Strong Bad called modern SB a "brightly colored buffoon." Bad Bad Guy 19:43, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Strong Sad's writing

WRiting really tiny and READING really tiny are 2 different things. WIthout the comical magnifying glass, he'd have no reason to write tinily in his notebook..

What does reading have to do with anything? The inconsistency is that he wrote a novel on a grain of rice, but it took him two pages of that notebook for him to write one word. Bad Bad Guy
He was writing a note to himself, so he writes at a size he can read. It's hardly an inconsistency.
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