Editing Talk:Happy Dethemberween

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== Magic or Badges ==
Does [[Brundo the Decemberween Yak|Brundo]] say I lost all my badges or magic?--[[User:Onestop|ONESTOP]] 14:44, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

:I definitely hear a distinct "m" sound &mdash; "magic". {{User:Trey56/sig}} 14:46, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

::Change the transcript someone.--[[User:Onestop|ONESTOP]] 14:49, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

:::I really think it might be badges.  Not to beat a dead horse here, but I do.  It was what I heard the first time, and it sort of ties back to [[nightlife]] with Homestar's "I got more badges than you."  -- [[User:Meltingemail|Meltingemail]] 04:13, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

::::Nevermind, just watched it again and realized that the Elf's next sentence, "The magic of Decemberween is in all of us," points to "magic," not "badges."  Redacted. -- [[User:Meltingemail|Meltingemail]] 04:28, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

== Firsts ==
I'm pretty sure this is the first time we've seen the thnikkachoir.  Additionally is it the first time we've seen homestar in bed without his "tee-shirt + robe" nightwear? -[[User:DAGRON|DAGRON]] 15:12, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
:It's definitely the first appearance of the choir... {{User:Trey56/sig}} 15:13, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

== Phone Calls? ==
It sounds to me like Strong Bad says "cold calls" instead of "phone calls," which makes a little more sense (to me, at least). [[User:Manolios|Manolios]] 15:33, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
:Seconded and edited. It's a phrase not everyone would recognize, so I'll work up an Explanation too. --[[User:TheNicestGuy|TheNicestGuy]] 15:38, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
:Definitely agree, makes sense in the sentence and it's pretty unmistakably "cold."--[[User:Big Dog|Big Dog]] 15:39, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

== mp3 ==

is it illegal to put up an mp3 of the song for download?
:Nah, we don't need to &mdash; in fact, I bet you one e-doughnut that it'll be this week's [[Quote of the Week]], with better audio quality! {{User:Trey56/sig}} 16:54, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
::well, next week's probably --[[User:Neumannz|Zatchman]] 18:08, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
:::YES! WE NEED ONE!!!!!--[[User:A thang|A thang]] 02:24, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
::::Please note that this conversation is over 6 months old. And just for the record...we really don't need a lot of mp3s of songs lyin' around the ol' KB in my mind. {{User:DevonM/sig}} 02:42, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
:::::<strike>You know, you could always e-mail them the mp3. Not everyone has the ability to "Record their output by setting output as input." Especially people who have Realtek HD Audio, like me! Also, read [http://freewebspace.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2201730 this thread] over on freewebspace.net for images/etc. on how I cannot record my sound out. {{User:Iyeru/sig}}</strike>

:::::Hey, I just got it, thanks to my Vista machine. {copyright violation link removed}, it includes 2:15 mins of holiday spirit! {{User:Iyeru/sig}}
::::::You did that? All by yourself? Grrr... That's my job... {{User:MichaelXX2/sig}} 03:45, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::::Yep, no thanks to me finding out about my volume. {{User:Iyeru/sig}}
::::::::I must warn you: The decibels are very low. I'll fix that when I wake up. It's 11:00 here where I live. {{User:MichaelXX2/sig}} 03:47, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::That's because you DON'T have Realtek HD Audio on a gateway machine. I can barely handle my master volume meter over 15/100. {{User:Iyeru/sig}}
::::::::::'''Warning:''' don't download that mp3  up there. You want {copyright violation link removed} this mp3 and {copyright violation link removed} this Ogg. {{User:MichaelXX2/sig}} 17:43, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::Iyeru's is better, but I don't think either belongs here.  {{User:OptimisticFool/sig}} 17:45, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
::::::::::::I'm going to kill myself now. {{User:MichaelXX2/sig}} 17:49, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Take a chill pill and take a little break from your computer. Come back when you're more relaxed. This is simply not what this wiki is about. It's a "Homestar Runner knowledge base that anyone can edit". Swapping mp3s is not part of that.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 17:53, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

== St. Olaf ==

Removed this Real-World Reference:
*The page title references the town of St. Olaf, which is the birthplace of Rose from [[Wikipedia:The Golden Girls|The Golden Girls]]. The show has been mentioned twice before, in sbmail [[helium]], and [[Halloween Potion-ma-jig]].
We can STUFF this if other people think the connection is strong enough, but note that St. Olaf was a [[Wikipedia:Olaf II of Norway|real saint]]. If there's any legitimate reference to be made here, it's to him, but I don't see the need, personally. --[[User:TheNicestGuy|TheNicestGuy]] 16:49, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

:I agree that the reference is more likely to the saint, and I think it's worth a mention in Real-World References, personally... {{User:Trey56/sig}} 16:59, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

::Go for it if you want. I just think it's a little tenuous. The fact is, it's equally likely TBC ''were'' thinking of the fictional town in Minnesota when they used that name. We've got no details on the "character", so it's impossible to tell. --[[User:TheNicestGuy|TheNicestGuy]] 17:06, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

:::Meh, there's a [[Wikipedia:St. Olaf College|college]] named after him too, along with probably a bunch of other things. But they're all named after ''him'', so I think it's fair to add a small ref about him &mdash; I'll go do it. {{User:Trey56/sig}} 17:09, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

::::Ah, yes, the good ole St. Olaf Oles. Which, it's been speculated, is where the Golden Girls writer got the name in the first place. Oh, Olaf, you never foresaw any of this when you subdued the Orkneys, did you? --[[User:TheNicestGuy|TheNicestGuy]] 17:18, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

:::::The rumor is that the writer who created Rose's fictional hometown of [[Wikipedia:St. Olaf, Minnesota|St. Olaf]] was a graduate of [[Wikipedia:Carleton College|Carleton College]], the rival liberal arts college just across the river in Northfield, Minnesota.  The writer supposedly wanted to emphasis the Midwestern wholesomeness (or perhaps naivete or airheadedness?) of the farmers' kids who went to St. Olaf.  -- [[User:Meltingemail|Meltingemail]] 04:26, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

St. Olaf isn't a town, it's a college.  The town it's in is called Northfield.--[[User:Big Dog|Big Dog]] 19:30, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

:It's a [[Wikipedia:St. Olaf, Minnesota|fictional town]], actually. Although there is a [[Wikipedia:St. Olaf Township, Minnesota|real St. Olaf Township]] in Minnesota, it's not the town the Golden Girls character grew up in, nor did she attend St. Olaf College. --[[User:TheNicestGuy|TheNicestGuy]] 22:30, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't the St. Olaf College choir do a televised concert every Christmas?  I'm sure I've seen it advertised on PBS (though I've never actually watched it.) &mdash;[[User: Silly Dan|Silly Dan]] <sub>[[User talk:Silly Dan|(talk)]]</sub> 23:15, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

:Yes, they definitely do. [[User:12.214.16.163|12.214.16.163]] 22:07, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

==Stop Motion==

On the forum, I had suggested a Rankin Bass stop motion parody. [[User:Awexome|Awexome]] 17:34, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm so proud of you. {{User:GardenBoy/sig}} 22:37, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

== Wait..What? ==

Thnikkaman cant be the true meaning of decemberween, he's just a character or event that happens, how can this defie EVERYTHING that everybody said in the decemberween pagent? [[User:Cyberdemon|Cyberdemon]] 18:54, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
: I think you're reading way too far into it. Equate the Dethemberween Thnikkaman to Santa Claus. Many children's specials treat Santa as the "king" of Christmas or whatever. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 18:56, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
: ...because it's a crazy cartoon with no real meaning or chronology, just whatever they feel like putting in?--[[User:Big Dog|Big Dog]] 19:31, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm thinking that strong bad belives that getting unmarked media cds from the Dethemberween Thnikaman is the "True Meaning of Decemberween." Decemberween proably '''has no meaning''', anyway.
*Besides, the true meaning of Decemberween is "a non-denominational alternative to Christmas". ^_^ [[User:Danny Lilithborne|Danny Lilithborne]] 01:21, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

==Little Debbie==
Aren't those Little Debbie Holiday Cakes?--[[User:Mycroft.holmes|Mycroft Holmes]] 19:43, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
:Oops! It was already noted! --[[User:Mycroft.holmes|Mycroft Holmes]] 19:45, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

== It's the THnikkaman, Strong Brown! ==

I know this is tenuous, but could Strong Bad's insistence on the Thnikkaman be a parallel for Linus' insistence on the Great Pumpkin? -- [[User:TJDevil02|TJDevil02]]
:It's a parallel to the time he wanted somebody to build a [[monument]] to the Thnikkaman even though he doesn't know what he does. [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 20:58, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

== About Brundo... ==

If he's the Decemberween Yak, could he be a refereence to Ren & Stimpy? Most notably, the Shaved Yak/Yak-Shaving Day. {{User:Im a bell/sig}} 21:31, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
: That would seem to be quite a stretch.--[[User:Big Dog|Big Dog]] 23:50, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
::How? One; they're both yaks. Two; they are seemingly major parts of a holiday. {{User:Im a bell/sig}} 01:39, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
:::But again: similarities do not equal references.  If we hear the Brothers Chaps saying something like "Yeah, we threw this in thinking about that Ren & Stimpy yak" or if it had been created with some specific visual or verbal reference in the toon, then we would know that's what was going on.  Without that, we don't have enough information to call it a reference.--[[User:Big Dog|Big Dog]] 05:30, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

== Cleanup Tag ==

I don't think i've ever seen a cleanup tag on a toon before, but this transcript has no stage directions once the song starts, hence needing to be fixed. {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 21:48, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
:Maybe it's one of those "music video" things, where the stage direction stuff goes on a separate page. ...Except this hasn't happened yet. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]] 21:51, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
::I don't think that a separate visuals page is necessary, the scene doesn't change that rapidly. {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 21:56, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

== Quh-quh-quh-quh-questionable Fact ==

<blockquote>The sheriff vaguely resembles [[Wikipedia:Burl Ives|Burl Ives]], who played Sam the Snowman in ''[[Wikipedia:Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (TV special)|Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer]],'' and his voice with the "Bu-bu-bu-bu-bye" would appear to be based on [[Wikipedia:Bing Crosby|Bing Crosby]]. (Bing Crosby himself was never animated in one of these specials, although the reference may be due to many people mistaking the [[Wikipedia:Fred Astaire|Fred Astaire]] role from the 1970 ''[[Wikipedia:Santa Claus Is Comin' To Town (TV special)|Santa Claus Is Comin' to Town]]'' as being performed by Bing Crosby.)</blockquote>

This fact is useless. How can the voice be based on if Bing Crosby wasn't even in a Rankin/Bass special? The Sheriff is most likely just based on a stereotypical Christmas narrator. --[[User:Trogga|Trogga]] 22:00, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

:I think the fact could be compressed to something like "The sheriff resembles Sam The Snowman from ''[[Wikipedia:Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer (TV special)|Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer]]''." and incorporated into the fact right above it. I agree that most of the stuff you quoted is dubious, but I think that the sheriff is intentionally similar to Sam The Snowman (compare the beard, etc.). {{User:Trey56/sig}} 22:13, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

:Actually, I'm thinking it was a broader reference than that.  Celebrities from the Golden Age of Hollywood were enlisted to narrate most of Rankin and Bass's Christmas specials (http://christmas-specials.wikia.com/wiki/Rankin/Bass#narrators).  Bing Crosby was a contemporary of most of the actors on that list, and is well known for his own Christmas albums and specials.  Also, the voice was <i>definitely</i> Bing Crosby, regardless of his having never been in a R&B special.  Obviously you didn't watch enough Looney Tunes as a kid.  I suggest you rectify this immediately. [[User: nekouken|nekouken]] 19:03, 17 December 2007 (CST)

:The reason to nod to Bing Crosby is simple, and has nothing to do with Rankin/Bass. At least not directly. Bing starred in [[Wikipedia:White Christmas (film)|White Christmas]] and made by far the most famous recording of the title song by Irving Berlin. Also, if you still doubt that "buh-buh-buh" points directly at Bing, take a look at the page linked to from the [[Talk:Brundo the Decemberween Yak and the Sword of St. Olaf#Crooner Deathmatch|Decemberween Yak talk page]]. --[[User:TheNicestGuy|TheNicestGuy]] 15:05, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
::But that's not proof of a ''reference''.  Something that could be, and there's a thing over here that's like that, and I heard this deal the other day, does not a reference make.  The fact that Bing Crosby recorded White Christmas doesn't make the case for reference any stronger.--[[User:Big Dog|Big Dog]] 07:08, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

:::Since details about the stop motion stuff is no longer on this page, see [[Talk:Brundo the Decemberween Yak and the Sword of St. Olaf]] for the rest of this discussion. -- [[User:TheNicestGuy|TheNicestGuy]] 13:52, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

== Deborah or Debra? ==

In the transcript it says Deborah, but I'm sure It's Debra...
: "Deborah" is a name. My spell checker accepts "Debra" but... I've got a feeling it's not considering the ''name''... --{{User:Jay/sig}} 22:32, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
::The name comes from the Hebrew name "דבורה" - pronounced "D'vo-rah" Not hard to get from D'vorah to Devorah to Deborah. "Deborah" is the correct spelling. {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 22:37, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

:::Hmm, I hear two syllables (from both Marzipan and Strong Bad) &mdash; Debra. Maybe some people pronounce "Deborah" with two syllables as well, but I use three. Also, I've definitely seen "Debra" as a name before: see [http://www.google.com/search?q=debra+wiki&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a lots of examples here]. {{User:Trey56/sig}} 22:40, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
::::Or even [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/debra here] (which may explain the spellchecker thing in its entirety). --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]] 22:43, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
:::::The "O" in "Deborah" is not heavily pronounced and sometimes not pronounced at all. That's the right way to spell it. Is "Debra" a real name? Perhaps, but never in my life have I seen it and the word conjures other images. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 22:46, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
::::::It's definitely a name; I don't think it means what you think it means ;) {{User:Trey56/sig}} 22:51, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
:::::::What does he think it means? {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 23:01, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
::::::::Wait, nevermind... i got it. She's drowning in the mini golf pool. {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 23:03, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
:::::::::Well, that and (to a lesser degree) one other thing, but neither of them is a woman's name. Doesn't matter; I have always seen the name spelled "Deborah". --{{User:Jay/sig}} 23:04, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
::::::(Y'know, over the years I've noticed that there's more than a thing or two that you've never seen, done, or eaten, but that others find commonplace. Maybe you're not as well versed as you thought you were. I for sure would have thought you would have heard of [[Wikipedia:Debra Messing|Debra Messing]] or [[Wikipedia:Debra Barone|Debra Barone]].) I myself did think of Deborah when I watched the toon. I think I can even make out a slight /o/ sound as Strong Bad and Marzipan say the name, and they both have a rounded "O" mouth for a frame each time they say it. &mdash; [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 23:58, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
:::::::There's also [[Wikipedia:Debra Winger|Debra Winger]], [[Wikipedia:Debra Marshall|Debra Marshall]], [[Wikipedia:Debra DiGiovanni|Debra DiGiovanni]], [[Wikipedia:Debra Wilson|Debra Wilson]], [[Wikipedia:Debra Jo Rupp|Debra Jo Rupp]], seriously the list goes on.  I'd like to know where you've been living to have ''never seen Debra'' before. [[User:Danny Lilithborne|Danny Lilithborne]] 01:03, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
:::::::: As I was about to say to Dot Com before you Edit Conflict'd me, the ones he'd mentioned I'd never seen written out. I can't even come up with the identities of half the "Debras" you just mentioned. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 01:04, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
:::::::::That would mean you've never watched "Will & Grace" before which is... well, unusual, but whatevs. [[User:Danny Lilithborne|Danny Lilithborne]] 01:07, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
::::::::::Or that I never paid close attention to the credits. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 01:12, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Deborah and Debra are both correct spellings of the name.  I've known people with both variations.  Unless we see in text from TBC themselves, we have no way of knowing which spelling they were referring to.  -- S
:See, here "Deborah" is pronounced "deb-uh-ruh" while "Debra" is "deb-ruh". There's a real difference. The less ambiguous spelling should be used: Debra. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 10:15, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
::I agree that I only hear two syllables, and "Debra" is how I read it in my head when I heard the name.  On the other hand, they do definitely make the "O" shape with their mouths when they say the name, which usually means there's an O in the word that TBC are lip-synching.  So, I dunno...  -[[User:DAGRON|DAGRON]] 10:27, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
:::Except that a lot of people pronounce "Deborah" as just two syllables. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]] 19:37, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
::::Yup. It's just like the argument of [[Senorial Day|gamble vs. gambol]]; lots of people said that Cardgage OBVIOUSLY pronounced the latter word and it didn't sound like the proper pronunciation of the former, apparently unaware that the two words are complete homophones. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 19:53, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
:::::Google 'em.  Deborah is far more common, nearly 2:1.  Let's go with the more common until corrected by a QotW or something, if it comes to that.  {{User:OptimisticFool/sig}} 20:13, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
::::::I have to point out, that logic only works if you believe they have the same pronounciation.  In my area, they don't.  It's a bit like saying that since "Kate" is a more common search result than "Kat", we should avoid using Kat.{{User:Nebulon/sig}} 10:13, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::Disagree.  It's not "just like" since Senor C's tendency to use gibberish and malapropisms adds significant ambiguity.  In this case, it's SB and Marzi speaking, so I don't think we have any reason to believe they'd both use a non-standard pronunciation of "Deborah", even if it is common.  - [[User:DAGRON|DAGRON]] 07:58, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
::::::But it's ''not'' non-standard. That's the point. "Debra" is the non-standard spelling. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]] 08:01, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
:::::::Maybe it's just different parts of the country (or different countries, even, dunno where you're from, DAGRON), but I would consider pronouncing Deborah with two syllables as the standard pronunciation, and would hear a three-syllable version as over-articulated. Oh, and I agree with using the spelling "Deborah" per Jay and Optimistic Fool. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 08:02, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
::::::::Okay, I have to concede that it seems that both pronunciations for Deborah are equally accepted, as evidenced by a brief google.  I guess my main point is that the pronunciation of Debra is unambiguous. (To DG: Debra's not a non-standard spelling by any means.  Less common, p'raps, but not unusual.)
::::::::I don't mean to belabor the point, especially seeing as I'm not particularly opposed to "Deborah" being used.  A Sketchbook of Marzi's cousin would help disambiguate, though =D -[[User:DAGRON|DAGRON]] 08:45, 19 December 2007 (UTC)  
Quasi-related, and forgive me if it's already been addressed or if I'm submitting it wrong: is the phrase 'better than Debra' intended to evoke the band name Better Than Ezra? --ham
:I admit that that's what comes to mind every time I see the phrase, but I don't think it's a reference. -[[User:DAGRON|DAGRON]] 16:38, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

I know this is an old discussion by now but I only noticed just now that the spelling on the transcript is Deborah.  This struck me as very odd, and I would like to register my support of those who would like to have it say "Debra".  I have known many people named Debra, and while it is a diminutive of Deborah, the two words are both recognized in the same sense of "Mary" and "Marie" - they have the same origin, but most people can differentiate between these two spellings when they hear it spoken.
While it is true that /ˈdɛbrə/ (deb-ruh) is an accepted pronounciation of Deborah, it is not the most common one.  Check out http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Deborah - For "Deborah", /ˈdɛbrə/ (deb-ruh) is consistently listed as second, behind /ˈdɛbərə/ (deb-er-uh).  On the other hand, http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Debra "Debra" has only one pronounciation - deb-ruh.  Certainly Debra is a derivative spelling of Deborah; however, I would argue that when the name is spoken as deb-ruh, it is more commonly spelled Debra; when spoken as deb-er-uh or de-bor-uh, it is written as Deborah.  Since Strong Bad and Marzipan clearly are saying deb-ruh, I believe it should be spelled Debra.{{User:Nebulon/sig}} 10:13, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

== Sheriff of Town ==
Is it just me, or does the 'Ween Sheriff look like the KOT in an olde Weekly Stetchbook with him in Western apparel? Enough for an inside ref?
:It's clearly a reference to at least the Burl Ives-voiced snowman from Rudolf the Red-Nosed reindeer.  Anything more than that would be too much of a stretch for the information available.--[[User:Big Dog|Big Dog]] 00:44, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

:Perhaps, perhaps not. Here are the images in question for reference:<br/>
[[Image:Sketchbook061103.png|150px|sheriff of town]][[Image:Dethemberween-stopmotion.png|150px|Sheriff of Ives]]<br />
--[[User:TheNicestGuy|TheNicestGuy]] 01:05, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
::Coincidence. The Sheriff of Town is supposed to resemble [[The King of Town]], and the sheriff in this toon does not look at all like the King. {{User:Homestar-winner/sig}} 01:21, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
:::The hat is different for one thing, and the mustache has been changed from white to brown. The SOT is not wearing a star badge. [[User:Awexome|Awexome]] 03:18, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

:This would explain why the Rankin/Bass snowman turned into a sheriff.  The Brothers Chaps may have given him a star because it was too hard to give him the gun.  That said, I think it's a coincidence.  The sheriff's beard seems clearly modeled after the Burl Ives snowman:
:[[Image:BurlIvesSnowman.jpg|150px]]
:Any other thoughts on why this dude's a sheriff? ~ [[User:Svelt|Svelt]] 21:49, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

::Nothing coherent. But there's a tenuous association with the narrator of ''Santa Claus Is Comin' To Town'', voiced by Fred Astaire, in that they're both uniformed municipal officials. He was a mail carrier. --[[User:TheNicestGuy|TheNicestGuy]] 23:50, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
:::I thought of the mail carrier, too.  Both are a stretch, but I'd back that before I'd back a reference to SOT. -[[User:DAGRON|DAGRON]] 08:35, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

== No Easter Egg At First ==

The page says that clicking "dang" used to replay the toon in "fixed goofs." That may be true, but I watched the toon very shortly after its release, and I'm pretty sure there was ''nothing'' clickable at the end. I don't recall whether I specifically clicked the "dang" but I did the tab trick to search for clickable spots, and only the "back" button showed up. [[User:Almsfothepudgy|Almsfothepudgy]] 01:57, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

The very same thing happened to me. (I'm just a guest)

== "What About Strong Sad and Deborah?" ==

is it too much of a stretch to call "deborah" an inside reference to [[senior prom]] when homestar mistakes coach z with an unheard of (at the time) "deborah"? i want feedback before i or someone else adds it   --[[User:Neumannz|Zatchman]] 02:21, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
:Hmmmmmm.....an intriguing possibility.  I would suggest that a third reference would seal the deal.  Anybody?  Number three?--[[User:Big Dog|Big Dog]] 03:00, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
::A search for the name only turned up 2 results, but Sbemail ''was'' the first thing that came to my mind at that line. [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 03:08, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

== Deth vs. Dec ==

Should Dethemberween be a seperate holiday considering it has no reference to [[A Decemberween Pageant]]?--[[User:Onestop|ONESTOP]] 03:03, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

:I don't think so because they're just replacing "c" with "th". {{User:Don't say jorb 101/sig}}

::In fact, I was toying with adding this fact to Remarks or something: If you look closely at the words that float by while the choir sings, you'll see that they do indeed say "Decemberween". The "tH" sign is taped over the front layer, but you can still see the "c" in the layers behind it. --[[User:TheNicestGuy|TheNicestGuy]] 04:25, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

:::I think the difference might be related to / clarified by the Christmas differences as well.  Christmas Pageants are usually about the first Christmas, with the birth of Jesus, but Santa Claus is the "hero" in many kids' minds because he's the one who brings the toys.  Two totally different stories, same holiday. [[User:Meltingemail|Meltingemail]] 04:11, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

== Horn v. French Horn ==

I know that the instrument depicted in the cartoon is properly called a horn (corno in Italian on most orchestral parts I've seen), in the United states it is most often referred to as the French Horn. Additionally, there is a character called [[The Hornblower]] who plays an instrument which could be called a horn. In the interests of clarity should we not refer to it as a French Horn here on the page for this toon?{{User:Bassbone/sig}} 09:14, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

:I'll second that. The term "horn" is terribly ambiguous to anyone who doesn't spend most of their time inside a symphony hall. (Look at big band music, for example, where all brass instruments, and even saxes and clarinets, are routinely called "horns".) I'll fix. --[[User:TheNicestGuy|TheNicestGuy]] 14:14, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
::The term isn't correct, and shouldn't be used. The link to Wikipedia is enough to show what we're talking about. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 07:43, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
::A little more detail on why this isn't a good solution: While the word French horn is in fact commonly used in everyday circles, it's rarely used in professional writing, and thus is not really appropriate for an encyclopedic source. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 07:50, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
:::The pedant in me knows that you're right and applauds it, but this feels to me like one of those cases where pedantry flies in the face of common sense. Giving this specific instrument the specific name of "horn" in any context where the audience are not experienced musicians causes unnecessary confusion. "Horn" sounds like a generic word even when it isn't and all too often will force the extra explanation of "I meant ''the'' horn." "French horn", on the other hand, is crystal clear to anyone with a middle school education, and immediately associated with the correct specific instrument. But like I said, you are right, so this is really me grousing about the world in general. --[[User:TheNicestGuy|TheNicestGuy]] 14:25, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
::::We could try a wording that observes both, similar to what's used at the beginning of the Wikipedia article. That is, state the correct name, and then an "also called" type of thing after that. It preserves encyclopedic naming whilst also acknowledging a common misnomer. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 17:53, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

== Younger Strong Bad? ==

I'm not sure about this, but does it seem to anybody that Strong Bad looks younger or smaller? He looks a lot like he did when he was younger in the paper.

:Over the course of about 200 e-mails, I've seen many different versions of Strong Bad, so slightly changes in appearance reflect artists' improvement and are not necessariliy notable.  If this were [[Lil' Strong Bad]], it would be different. ~ [[User:Svelt|Svelt]] 09:08, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

== the "run" ==

This'll probably get shot down, but I feel the need to say it...  The "Horn run", which is repeated by Homestar as "Doodley Doodley Doo," is pretty much exactly the same as the "Shoobedy Doobedy Doo" in the song "That's Professor Hawk" from an episode of Dexter's Laboratory.  Rhythm, pitch, etc.  
There's a video of the song here [http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/21110/Dexter_s_Lab_That_s_Professor_Hawk.html].  The run I'm talking about happens at 23 seconds.  (It may be preceded by an ad).
I know it's a stretch to think they're related, but the music from Jibblies 2 was supposedly similarly based on/inspired by the music from Killer Instinct.
-[[User:DAGRON|DAGRON]] 14:44, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

:A short chromatic run, either up the scale or up and back down, as a fill between phrases, is practically a musical clich&eacute;. I've heard it in plenty of places, notably "76 Trombones" from ''The Music Man'', which is much older and considerably more similar to this song. There may be an ultimate source for it, but it's definitely not Dexter's Laboratory, and it's not really relevant to try to figure it out. --[[User:TheNicestGuy|TheNicestGuy]] 16:43, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

::Yeah, you're right.  I guess the vocalization (or whatever you'd call the Doodley's) was more of what made me think of that.  But essentially it's a chromatic run.  Oh well, won't be the last time I make a dumb comment, I'm sure.  -Dagron

== Chime Bells - Interesting or not? ==

I thought the following Remark would be interesting, at least from a music perspective, but I thought I'd put it on the Talk page for a vote first:

The "Homsar chimes" are modeled after [http://www.sawlady.com/belltypes.htm chime bells], which are struck by a mallet, rather than more typical concert [http://www.majesticpercussion.com/ross_chimes.html chimes], which are struck with a hammer.
~ [[User:Svelt|Svelt]] 21:31, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

:My vote is that it wouldn't be the nitpickiest thing I've seen survive an article, but I don't think much of it myself. The main reason is that although the chime bells do bear a striking resemblance&mdash;you'd better believe that pun was intended&mdash;to a bunch of silly yellow hats, that's a pretty obscure instrument as mallet instruments go. The sound aside, most people would probably associate that shot with [[Wikipedia:Timpani|timpani]], and with the sound they'd probably think of an exaggerated [[Wikipedia:Glockenspiel|glockenspiel]]. Also, if you worded it like that you'd get a flood of people complaining that "a mallet is a hammer!" or vice versa. (I and most other percussionists I've known have referred to a rawhide hammer for chimes as a "chime mallet".) Finally, if you decide to add it anyway, I would suggest the more explicit term "tubular bells" for concert chimes, and I would mention them not because they're "typical", but because they're what the Homsar chimes actually sound like. I've never seen malleted bells large enough to sound very much like a big ol' set of tubular bells. --[[User:TheNicestGuy|TheNicestGuy]] 00:06, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback!  Yeah, this was exactly why I considered adding the note - the visual had a weird disjoint with the audio, and the instrument was rather obscure but looked just like the hats.  As an aside, I used the term "concert chimes" b/c I figured more people would understand.  Here's a modified note, and any revisions are welcome:

The "Homsar chimes" are modeled after [http://www.sawlady.com/belltypes.htm chime bells], although they have the sound of [http://www.majesticpercussion.com/ross_chimes.html tubular bells] (concert chimes).

~ [[User:Svelt|Svelt]] 18:28, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

OK, comment added.  [[User:Svelt|Svelt]] 15:54, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

:Removed, I don't think it's very interesting, or even true. {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 17:37, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Gee, thanks so much for contributing to the discussion page in the week or so I left this up for commentary before posting.  In any case, it's definitely true (see the pitures, the visuals and audio are compelling, not coincidence).  My guess is that TBC saw chime bells and thought they looked like a bunch of Homsar hats and probably put it in.  But since they use cheesy keyboard sound effects, the closest sound they could find were regular chimes.  If you don't think this is true, please put forward a referenced commentary in refutation.  As to whether or not this is interesting, that is a matter in which I still seek comments from other users. [[User:Svelt|Svelt]] 16:30, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

:I do have to back the sarcasm there. If a proponent has the courtesy to submit a possibly controversial Fact for discussion before adding it to the page, I would call it less than neighborly to remove it without discussion. To be fair, however, the claim that it's "not true" has some merit. As written, the fact implies that TBC ''unmistakably'' used chime bells as an inspiration, which, as you just said, is a guess. It is at least equally likely that they wanted to reuse the very old gag of living creatures turned into percussion instruments (c.f. the [[Wikipedia:Marvin Suggs|Muppaphone]]), and chose Homsar just because he was appropriately absurd and had [[Fall Float Parade|already been seen multiplied]], not because he looked like bells. But if you change the fact to point out the speculation, then it gets labeled as weasel words and gets deleted anyway. The classic Catch-22 of iffy facts.

:As for interesting, I'm not going to touch that one. If I deleted every fact I didn't think was interesting, this wiki would contain far fewer pseudo-math Trivia and "look they used more than thrice a common word that I use all the time" Inside References. --[[User:TheNicestGuy|TheNicestGuy]] 18:22, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

::Hmm.  Changing the language from "modeled after" to "bear a striking resemblance to" would be quite reasonable.  However, I'm confident that this is not mere coincidence.  If the audio were handbells, cymbals, or triangle, then sure, but a chime sound combined with the right shape and layout, well, I find that compelling.

::I have to say, though, that most people would probably agree that the "Muppaphone" had inspiration from a vibraphone, both from its name and appearance, despite the different audio.  I would think that one could similarly conclude that "Homsar chimes" are related to chime bells. ~ [[User:Svelt|Svelt]] 07:52, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

== Dethemberween Thnowman ==

There's a snowman in the background at one point that resembles one of the snowmen on Strong Bad's float in the [[Fall Float Parade]]. Notable?{{User:Bassbone/sig}} 00:27, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Eh, it's a generic snowman. [[User:Mr. Basso|Mr. Basso]] 00:48, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

== Do we really need this? ==

In the Easter egg, The Homsar chimes play G, F, E, and D from left to right, which correspond to the tonal 5, 4, 3, and 2 in the key of the toon's song. However, during the toon they play D/F—one chime plays two pitches, somehow—G, A, and B."

Is anybody else thinking of the Simpsons episode where Homer is the voice of Poochie? And when he answers questions?

:My friend, if I had a nickel for every Fun Fact that could be compared to that scene, I would throw them at people in the food court. From that railing, like up above. But if a handful of people find it interesting, and it's not untrue or overly speculative, it generally deserves to live. Besides, that fact was twice as long (and double-bulleted!) before I cleaned it up. --[[User:TheNicestGuy|TheNicestGuy]] 15:17, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

== Horn Range ==

I originally wrote the fact about the horn's range not quite agreeing with the tones played during its appearance, which I phrased as "the tones ... are, at best, at the extreme low end of the instrument's range," since, as a former collegiate horn player, that was my visceral reaction.  The way it's phrased now, it seems to imply that those tones are, in fact, within that range.  Now, has somebody actually taken the time to find specifically which notes of which octave those are, and whether they fall within a typical player's range?  [[User:24.165.178.120|24.165.178.120]] 17:20, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
:I have absolute pitch, and can tell easily where those pitches fall. Whether or not they're in the typical player's range, I can't say for sure, but they're certainly in my range, and I'm definitely an amateur player. I should point out that the user who changed the remark on the page is also a horn player, so the edit wasn't made in ignorance. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 17:58, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
::Are they down in the pedal range of the horn? I am a trombone player so I'm not exactly sure where it would be on the horn. Despite the image on the screen it sounded like a tuba to me.{{User:Bassbone/sig}} 22:35, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
:::Most horn players I've worked with are able to play in that range.  The horn (I generally don't say French horn, as all the horn players I've known don't like that inaccurate name) has the widest range of all brass instruments, so while every player certainly couldn't play that low, it's not out of the range of the instrument.--[[User:Big Dog|Big Dog]] 16:32, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
::::Bassbone: Don't forget that part of the problem is that it's a crappy electric keyboard really, so you're not getting any timbral clues to tell what instrument it is. The range and volume are quite reasonable for a horn. {{User:Heimstern Läufer/sig}} 07:39, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
:::::Awesome, just wanted to be sure of all that.  My original intent was to communicate to non-musicians that this isn't a representation of typical horn parts in ensemble arrangements, and therefore it probably wouldn't have been an actual horn part -- more likely trombone or tuba -- in a real ensemble, all without ''judging'' it one way or the other.  I think we've done all that's appropriate to this end, unless anybody else has any further thoughts. [[User:24.165.178.120|24.165.178.120]] 17:05, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

== Club Technochocolate ==

I see Club Technochocolate listed under "places", but I don't see it in the toon proper.  Am I missing something?  Are we counting the black background behind Strong Bad while he's in bed as the Club?  Or is this an actual error?  --[[User:69.251.13.56|69.251.13.56]] 19:30, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
:Yeah, I don't see it either.{{User:Loafing/sig}} 19:41, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

== Who the Crap Let Strong Sad Out? ==

*Strong Sad is usually locked in the bathtub on Decemberween, however, he is present in this cartoon.<br/>
I tried to delete this fact because I thought it could have been too early to lock him in the bathtub.  Does anyone agree? [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 20:56, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

:Eh......I guess we don't really ''know'' this cartoon is taking place on Decemberween, especially since it was put up a week ahead of time.  I don't think it's a big deal either way, but I don't think it's worth a battle for inclusion.--[[User:Big Dog|Big Dog]] 21:17, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

::My feeling is that this would be notable, although it's uncertain that it's Decemberween.  The characters definitely are outside watching the Thnikkaman go by, so that's somewhat suggestive. ~ [[User:Svelt|Svelt]] 09:24, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

== The Lake of Dreams Come True ==

Am I the only one who heard the 1st "He's the Decemberween Thnikkaman and he'll make your dreams come true" as "on the lake of dreams come true"?  It would match the ice-skating clip. [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 22:10, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
:If this tune becomes a QOTW we will probably be able to tell better.  It's a little bit hard to hear in the toon, although the more obvious one would be "make your dreams come true."--[[User:Big Dog|Big Dog]] 20:08, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
:::I just watched it on our Sony Bravia (Wii Internet Channel) and it's clearly "make". [[User:Bad Bad Guy|Bad Bad Guy]] 20:18, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

== Tholiday Feelin'==
The transcript has Strong Bad written down as singing "There ain't no beatin'/cielin' (depending on the verse) that holiday feelin'." When I listen to the song, I hear a very pronounced (yet missable due to the voiceless nature of the sound) 'TH' sound, making it, "that THoliday feelin'." [[User:8Bit|8Bit]] 04:37, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

== Second Egg? ==

I haven't really been able to test this effectively... but does anybody think that playing the Homsar chimes a certain way might unlock some other special scene? Like, maybe playing them the way that Gron Sad plays them in the 'toon?
:I tried skipping ahead in the flash file manually, there's no second egg. {{User:DeFender1031/sig}} 15:46, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

== St. Nicohlth Night ==

This is most likely a random coincidence, but I figured I might as well bring it up on the Talk page.  Anyway, Certain familys celebrate St.Nicholas night on December 6th, where kids usually wake up and find somt types of small gifts, typically candy or CDs, in their shoes.  Any corrolation to the whole "blank media in people's shoes"?  Probably not, but worth at least a mention.--{{User:DongleGoblin/sig}} 18:26, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

:It's probably related partially to the various European traditions like you mentioned, as well as the whole stockings thing we do here, so I'd say it's worth a mention since it's pretty clearly a reference.--[[User:Big Dog|Big Dog]] 19:05, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

::Definitely [[TTATOT]], This: St. Nicholas Day. That: American Stockings. The Other Thing: The Magi delivering presents to the Spanish Speaking world on The Epiphany. Also, other the three I'm pretty sure American stocking tradition is being played here. &mdash; [[User:Flashfight|Flashfight]] 19:40, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

:::True.  They all descend from the older parent traditions of Europe, but seeing as how the issue is not the original tradition but what the Brothers Chaps were referring to, I must concur.--[[User:Big Dog|Big Dog]] 20:00, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

::::I think it's most likely a reference to [http://www.stnicholascenter.org/Brix?pageID=38 St. Nicholas Tradition], which can involve either shoes or stockings, since the [http://www.annieshomepage.com/epiphany.html Epiphany] is technically not in December.  It would be difficult to come up with a list of disparate celebrations involving shoes and presents that occur in December.  Thus I disagree that this is [[TTATOT]], but rather a reference to a single tradition with multiple manifestations.  ~ [[User:Svelt|Svelt]] 08:41, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

== Closed STUFF ==

{{stuffcloseddecline}}

=== The Hobbit wasn't enough for them? ===
{{stufffact|Strong Sad's wondering what a mystical sword has to do with Decemberween may be particularly inspired by Rankin/Bass's final stop motion production, ''[[Wikipedia:The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus|The Life & Adventures of Santa Claus]]'', which confusingly features an epic fantasy battle sequence.}}
{{stuffverdict|14:50, 21 December 2007 (UTC)|06:13, 26 December 2007 (UTC)|declined|15|3|Happy Dethemberween}}

{{stuffclosedaccept}}

=== Buh-buh-buh-Bing ===
{{stufffact|[The Sheriff's] voice appears based on that of [[Wikipedia:Bing Crosby|Bing Crosby]], who popularized the song "White Christmas".}}
{{stuffverdict|14:27, 20 December 2007 (UTC)|17:37, 24 December 2007 (UTC)|accepted|16|3|Happy Dethemberween}}

== "One and all o' dang y'all!" ==

Is Bubs's line, "Yeah, shut up! To one and all o' dang y'all!" really a parody of "Merry Christmas to all, and to all a good night?"  To me, it sounds a lot more like Tiny Tim's, "Merry Christmas, one and all!" from "A Christmas Carol." [[Special:Contributions/146.122.71.68|146.122.71.68]] 12:27, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
:I agree that it is a Tiny Tim ref. He doesn't say "Yeah, shut up to all, and to all o' dang y'all some blank CDs." or something. {{User:Strongkinghomsarsmith/sig}} 02:36, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

== hymns/hims ==

Did anyone else notice that when you see the "Singers" their green songbooks say "Hims"? Does this deserve a place on the page?
@@ Line 333: / Line 333: @@
 Did anyone else notice that when you see the "Singers" their green songbooks say "Hims"? Does this deserve a place on the page?
-== First connected phone? ==
-Is it just me, or is this the first time we've seen a phone with supposedly connected wires on H*R?  Pretty much all instances of characters using a phone (aside from mobile phones) I can think of were disconnected. And if this is the case, does it warrant mentioning? -[[User:MNGoldenEagle|MNGoldenEagle]] 21:22, 18 December 2008 (UTC)