Talk:Date Nite

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Revision as of 04:49, 26 April 2007

This page is for discussing edits and content of the Date Nite article. If you have a general comment on this cartoon, or speculation on the plot, please post it at the forum. Thanks!

Secret Hot Date

Is there a connection between the "secret hot date" Cardboard Marzipan invited the Cheat on and the "hot date" they actually went on? Is the fact that there are fireworks in both of the cartoons relevant? — 75.85.125.208 (Talk | contribs) 22:58, 23 April 2007 (left unsigned)

Might even mention the end of do over in relation to this too. --DorianGray 06:53, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, there's definitely been a pattern here. also note the "who's making out with marzipan" line from the cheat's theme song. that was probably the first lead in, or whatever --Neumannz

Also peculiar that Marzipan doesn't seem to mind The Cheat's small talk about two Ira's, after being annoyed by Homestar's two Sid's in date. 61.149.38.114 13:12, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, Homestar was playing a stupid, boring game that she had no hope of winning. The Cheat was actually holding a conversation. -Wrath

The "Making out with Marzipan" thing was a reference to the Homestar Talker game. The original wining phrase was "Making out with Marzipan is totally awesome." — User:ACupOfCoffee@ 04:04, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Irony

Is it worth mentioning that Strong Bad proposes that they drown the Cheat and Marzipan, but in the end it is Homestar and Strong Bad who are drowned? — 75.85.125.208 (Talk | contribs) 22:58, 23 April 2007 (left unsigned)

That's along the lines of explaining the joke, something not normally done around here unless it's rather obscure. Also, please sign your talk page posts with four tildes (~~~~)— Bassbone (^{TALK CONT}) 07:20, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Public Rage-o flyer

The broken glasses could be a play off of the glasses Ira Glass wears. (They look quite similar) Anyone else think so? -Cappy Red 68.5.95.211 08:32, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I thought the same thing. Weird when you see radio people on TV. It's always like "I don't know what I would have expected him to look like, but it just ain't that." — User:ACupOfCoffee@ 08:58, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the first rule of thumb for all radio personalities is to look absolutely nothing like how they sound. =3 Trey56 08:59, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah, forgot we'd already had a lesson on that. Glass actually comes close to what you'd (I'd) expect him to look like, but just not quite. — User:ACupOfCoffee@ 09:11, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Truly, he looks just different enough so as to throw you off. It's like he has his own personal uncanny valley ;¬) -Cappy Red 68.5.95.211 15:23, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

8-Bit resemblence

i'm not suggesting anybody uses this, but does any one else notice any echoes of Black Mage from 8-bit theater in Strong Bad when he's discussing the drowning of Marzipan and the Cheat? especially the "Explain to me how drowning them wouldn't ruin their date" line. it's funny, but that's just me. --Neumannz

Strong Bad always sounds like that. Wrath

Heh, that is totally something BM would say. The makuta 13:47, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Mario

I obviously thought of Mario when Strong Bad said "Itsa me, the chef-a", but I don't know if it's really that clear. Danny Lilithborne 09:51, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Mario has a bad Italian accent too, yes. --DorianGray 09:53, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

One of Mario's catchphrases is "It's-a me! Mario!" I thought of Mario as well. —Shwoo 10:06, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Stereotypical Italian, probably. I thought it was Mario as well, but an Italian seems more practical. --TotalSpaceshipGirl3 10:25, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Shockingly, Mario is Italian. and we know TBC are nintendo guys, i'd expect them to have had mario in the front of their minds as a role model for a fake-italian accent --Neumannz

I immediately thought of Mario. It brought me back to my N64 days. The startup screen..."Itsa me! Mario! *doo doo doo doo doo doo* Hello!" --Kiwi 22:03, 24 Apr 2007 (UTC)

Methinks it's a stereotypical Italian chef. Not Mario. It's POSSIBLE, but I doubt it. Bluebry 02:12, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Not possible. It's stereotyped Italian, just as Mario is. If it's like Mario, it's stereotypical Italian, and is no ref to Mario. - Qermaq - (^T/C)  02:15, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Mario is not the only Italian in the world. He's not even the only Italian stereotype. Have you forgotten Luigi? The one on the Simpsons, not Mario's brother! --BigScaryMike 03:55, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

My opinion: I think a reference to Mario. My username may play a part in this, though. -- Super Martyo boing! 04:54, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I didn't think of Mario at all when I first watched this, and my initial reaction to the idea was that it is only a play on the stereotype. But I did a few google searches and an overwhelming majority of the results pertain to Mario, often the N64 incarnation of the game. I'm still hesitant, but now I'm not as sure.—BryanCTC 16:30, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

The reason I thought of Mario was because of the "Itsa me ***" format. Danny Lilithborne 04:10, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Speaking as an IP address, I probably don't have much clout, but I'd definitely say Mario reference. Stereotypical italians don't say "Itsa Me!" Only Mario does. 129.64.141.43 16:06, 25 April 2007 (UTC) (oh, and this image code thing is disgusting, I normally can get these things no problem, but this is just like paint splatters)

(129.64.141.43, I replied here) This one's a tough call, but I'm leaning toward it being a reference to Mario here. The discussion is so evenly split, I think that STUFF would be helpful here — I'll get one started. Trey56 16:34, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Okay, here it is. Trey56 16:54, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I also thought of Mario right away, but that doesn't mean that that's what TBC were thinking of when they wrote the cartoon. --Lux Acerbus 01:25, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Another Reference to Coach Z thinking he's a woman

The curlers on Coach Z's head and the rolling pin he's holding seems to be another reference to Coach Z thinking he's a woman, the other being when he said he was a mom in an easter egg at the end of Sbemail #129 Garage Sale.

I think it's unwise to assume that Coach is conscientiously pretending to be a woman. Can't TBC just stick him in the cartoon to make a final punchline with no strings attached? —BazookaJoe 16:41, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Right now the page suggests that Coach Z is a "mom" in this cartoon. He is clearly displaying characteristics of a woman (certain attitude, curlers, rolling pin), but there is no indication that he is acting like a "mom" (a particular kind of woman). Lynx 17:39, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I think he's acting like a wife. I mean, that's just such a classic image in television and movies. I don't know if he's doing it on purpose or if he just has a complex, though. Personally, I was thinking OTP. Wrath

I think he's being portrayed as a mother. Mabye he's actually a girl. We have no way of knowing if he is or not. He may actually be Bubs' mother. --Jangles5150 19:41, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh my. That would be quite the interesting development...--Kiwi 22:04, 24 Apr 2007 (UTC)

Believe it or not, there are some men who wear curlers (I'm involved in the dance world :P). Though I agree it's more than likely a joke that he's playing a mom. Nothin' serious. Coach Z has always been weird. CoveredinSuudzu 15:29, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

We have, after all, established that he has more than two problems. —AbdiViklas 03:38, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Going down with the ship

Is the fact that Homestar and Strong Bad are singing the national anthem as their 'ship' goes down a reference to anything? It seems familiar to me, but I don't know where from... ^Kah_teh 11:20, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I thought of Titanic when I first saw it. The orchestra on the ship continued playing as the ship was sinking. — Has Matt? (talk) 11:27, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I thought of that Looney Toons with Nero and Yosemite Sam as a Roman centurion and the pillar slowly falling while Nero plays Taps on a violin. Maybe something like that inspired them. Uhuh huh. Thankyaveramuch. 12:39, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I think Elvis got it. This "going down with the ship" thing seems very cartoony. Looney Toony. —BazookaJoe 16:45, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Okay bear with me a second. I've never actually seen the Hunt for Red October, so I'm getting this from my mom. In order to hijack the Red October and go to America, they took it out on the maiden voyage. The part of the crew that was in on the plot arranged a fake nuclear explosion and forced the rest of the crew off the sub. That part of the crew was standing on an American ship when the fake explosion occurred, and they sang the Russian national anthem while the Red October "sank". I think that's the reference the Brothers Chaps were going for. -Wrath

Could be that too. You never know for sure what they are thinking. I say we shouldn't try to pinpoint this as a solid reference to anything in particular. —BazookaJoe 19:09, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Except they don't sing the anthem as the ship goes down. The Russians stand on the deck of the rescuing American ship, silent and mournfully removing their caps, staring at the sea. They sing it much earlier in the film, when they first engage the caterpillar drive. — It's dot com 20:39, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

It's actually another sub that explodes. The Russian Anthem does play at the end of the movie IIRC. It's close, but I wouldn't call it a reference.—NFITC1^talk 13:56, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

They didn't know it was another sub, of course. At the end, it's not the Russian anthem, but a reprise of the main theme of the movie. — It's dot com 23:23, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

I fail to see how this is cartoony. It's a common motif, not a reference to anything in particular. Loafing 21:58, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

It could be a reference to most cartoons, which sing/plays Taps as their ship sinks. - Zerlock1124

Mind, I don't think it should be in the article, but for the record, I thought the same thing. "Hm, Red October reference, singing a national anthem..." —AbdiViklas 03:39, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Rockets

In the inside references section it mentions the part in SBIIJC where the bang was all that was needed. Wouldn't the fathoom be necessary in this case, considering without it Homestar and Strong Bad would just blow up? Elvis 12:36, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Yea, I noticed the same thing. From what I can tell, they want the fathoom so that they fire towards Marzipan and The Cheat. I'm changing it. The makuta 13:59, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Fundraising weeks

How many local NPR stations are having their drives this week? I know it is in Jacksonville, FL.

Why are you asking this? What relativity does it have to Homestar Runner? Why didn't you sign your post? --Jangles5150 20:22, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Because the Easter egg is about public radio fundraising drives, during the same time that many NPR stations are having fundraising drives. That's why. --DorianGray 20:24, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I didn't read the easter egg. It just seemed really out of the blue. --Jangles5150 21:09, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I'd say the fact doesn't belong. There is no official schedule that I'm aware of for fund raising on public radio, so each week could be a fundraising week for some station. - Qermaq - (^T/C)  22:13, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Don't read it, watch it! — User:ACupOfCoffee@ 04:07, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Huh? What am I not supposed to read and supposed to watch? - Qermaq - (^T/C)  02:49, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

That was a reply to Jangles' "I didn't read the easter egg." Loafing 02:50, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

FUN Facts. FUN

How is this piece of trivia a Fun fact? "Marzipan strokes her right eye with mascara 18 times." I'm pretty sure it isn't. 63.229.175.33 14:40, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Good point. I've deleted it- maybe whoever put it there would mind explaining why it's of interest? ^Kah_teh 15:13, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

oh, you know, just in case someone wanted to be able to say that they apply makeup just like marzipan does or something --Neumannz

Squared Circle

The Squared Circle is a term used in Professional Wrestling, because unlike the actual sport, where they wrestle within a circle, the entertainment version takes place in a square ring, hence, square instead of circle.

or maybe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squaring_the_circle ?

Differnet

Is it just me, or did this toon seem... I dunno... different than the older ones somehow? Did TBC use a different engine to make it or something?--Homsar Lover

Looks like Flash to me. Maybe they upgraded the program or something. Wrath

Maybe you're not used to the style used (as in it's night, romance, fancy resteraunts, etc.).-Zerlock1124

Marzipan's house

I'm pretty sure Homestar and Marzipan live together now. 130.91.36.229 17:49, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

DVD Commentary on Strong Bad is in Jail Cartoon:

MATT: Dude, I don't want to hint at any cohabitation here, okay?

--DorianGray 19:14, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Although they probably don't, alot of things hint at it, such as the "stay home running in place" (Homestar was jogging at Marzy's house) and the "Marzipan, I'm home!" from your funeral. But, of couse, the above quote dispells all. Dr. Clash 20:14, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

So, Strong Bad is in Jail Cartoon was what, three years ago? They sure do seem to live together now, though. 76.99.53.18 22:51, 24 April 2007 (UTC) (Same guy, different IP address.)

That commentary was recorded last summer. —BazookaJoe 04:57, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Strong Bad, Nice?

Is it just me, or is strong bad being a friend towards homestar? isn't that out of character?

Strong Bad can be civil when he wants. Besides, they had a common goal. I admit, it was a little 'Bwuh?', though. Wrath

The common goal between Homestar and Strong Bad is what made this toon stand out. And quite nicely too. —BazookaJoe 19:16, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I've seen this before in cartoons. Fairly Oddparents, for one. Timmy and Remy were both mad at Cupid in one episode, so they truced (even though they are enemies) to "kill" him (or at least seriously injure him, that gorrilla looked angry) -- Super Martyo boing! 04:30, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Maybe to make it so you don't have to have watched that episode to know what it's about, I'll reference this episode, in which Jimmy and Timmy team up to make it so the anti-faires (and later Professor Calamitous) don't take over the world. -- Super Martyo boing! 04:34, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

A little gay...

Don't be mad at me or anything, but dosen't it seem the SB and TC are...(ugh). I mean, Homestar was mad at Marzi because she is going out with another man and she is his girlfriend, but SB was mad at TC for the same reason, making TC his...Boyfriend?!? -A little confused, Wario64 04:32 pm, Tuesday, April 24th.

Strong Bad 1. Hates Marzipan and B. Is TC's best friend. Of course he's angry. It's Coach Z we should be worried about though :P Dr. Clash 20:37, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, personally, I don't know why that would be worrying. On the other hand, this is really a discussion for the forum. Loafing 20:39, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

No. Strong Bad hates Marzipan. The gay relationship we should worry about is Strong Mad and The Cheat.— Tgcdse (Talk | contribs) 15:50, 25 April 2007 (left unsigned)

What Loafing said.—BryanCTC 22:53, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

This thread is veering out of talk page appropriateness but let me state that in no way would I buy for a second that TBC are ever going to present their characters in any relationship other than goofy, dysfunctional ones. Not that we need to "worry" about a gay relationship in the first place, but it's as close to a certainty as anything is in this world that TBC are not intending their characters to be gay. - Qermaq - (^T/C)  02:47, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Strong Sad's voice

Is it just me, or does Strong Sad's voice sound suddenly different? Deeper or something. Ekul 21:39, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

• Yes, Strong Sad's voice and character have been evolving a bit lately. Just this year, he's already been physicially violent toward Strong Bad (Rough Copy) and smiled willingly (Looking Old) before that. Nothing particularly unusual about it, though, as this sort of evolution happens with all of the characters from time to time. 0rion 08:57, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Title Card

Is this the only toon, other than Summer Short Shorts, that has a title card in it?--SDSpivey 21:47, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Ummm...what do you mean by Title Card?? -- Nevadie 21:56, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

A title card is a separate image of the show's title. --DorianGray 22:00, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I think Halloween Potion-ma-jig had a title card. Some of the older ones (like A Jorb well done and Powered by The Cheat cartoons) -Zerlock1124

Speaking of title cards, should someone add that at the end of the title sequence, the 'e' falls against the title frame?Sir Vimes 23:38, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Every Big Toon, even from 2005-now, has a title card. (although for Strongest Man in the World they simply reused the cover of The Homestar Runner Enters The Strongest Man in the World Contest, which the toon is based on) Also, every major Halloween toon, the Puppet Stuff, and every Decemberween special except the email what i want have title cards. Bad Bad Guy 00:08, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Strong Bad Old-timey Strong Bad Reference

Is it me or is that italian mustache SB was wearing look kinda like Old-Timey SB's mustache? Austio talk 23:53, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

A lot of mustaches have appeared in Homestar Runner. See Mustaches. Also, Old-Timey SB's 'stache is a lot longer, methinks. — Has Matt? (talk) 23:59, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I thought the same thing - I wondered if it's worth mentioning that SB resembles his Old-Timey counterpart here. --NoMayonnaise 15:35, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Fireworks mirror

I think we should do a mirror where the fireworks goof appears (when they're still attached to the ship when they sink) like the "floating lime" mirror in Let us give TANKS!. I have the flash file for that version, so I think that would help. How would I upload it? --Darkangel 03:48, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

You wouldn't. Only images and audio can be uploaded. Tom runs the mirror as far as I know, so if he doesn't already have it, you'd have to get it to him. — User:ACupOfCoffee@ 04:17, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps you could take a screen shot of the fireworks appearing on the sub? Just a suggestion --Murgatroid 05:12, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Email it to the address at the bottom of Tom's user page. — It's dot com 23:20, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

... that fake mustache he always wears ...

I acknowledge that the mustache appearance is a good inside reference, but isn't this more directly an inside reference to Fabrosi / Homestar's fake mustaches from Lady-ing given the fact that the Cheat's mustache is a fake? 71.96.169.82

Since when did Homestar have a fake mustache in lady...ing? -- Super Martyo boing! 04:41, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Since the Easter egg. --DorianGray 04:45, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh. Now see, I've never watched that Easter Egg. -- Super Martyo boing! 04:49, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

For shame, Martyo, for shame. --DorianGray 05:01, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Four, then?

Who is Marzipan referring to when remarks that Homestar has had to fight off four foxes' mothers to stay loyal to her? The first thing that popped in my head was TGS, but that doesn't really make sense. Could it be the failed female characters they're referring to? Champeen and them? CoveredinSuudzu 15:31, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh, nevahmind, it's prolly just that's as high as he can count. LOL CoveredinSuudzu 15:32, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict)She's not referring to anyone in particular. Homestar says "more than I can count," so she's making fun of him by saying he can't even count to 4. DeFender1031 15:34, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Character Development

Woah. This is the first time I've seen real character development, done by characters, with actual development, since, like...ever. Does anyone else notice that? And feel unnverved? VolatileChemical 15:39, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

This is probably the most salient example, but I think it would be difficult to hold that it is the first time. There are snippets of character development here and there, if we allow that the entire world of www.homestarrunner.com is one holistic narrative. For example, we know that the relationship between Strong Sad and Strong Bad wasn't always as it is now (The Secrets That I Keep). We also see a desperate attempt by the KOT to become a cool character (seeking help from Marzipan on her answering machine and creating KOTVOQPCS, which by it's name implies that the KOT is "popular"). Numerous characters have had epiphanies of self-awareness (SS "I'm a waste of space", CZ "I've hit rack bartom!"). And throughout the entire narrative we see fluctuating relational dynamics between all of the characters; their attitudes and behavior towards one another does not remain static (at times SB hates HR, and at other times they are found playing Cheat Commandos or drinking 'old ones together). Because HR.com is episodic in nature it is difficult to see much character development in any given instance, but as a broader story arc it should be easier to see development. Lynx 02:32, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Don't forget Strong Sad's development in Strong Bad is in Jail Cartoon. That was a big one. - Joshua

Jail reference?

Doesn't the use of fireworks used as TNT count as a reference to the Strong Bad is in Jail 'toon? -Zerlock1124

Yep. Already mentioned. Same brand of rockets and everything. --DorianGray 22:01, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

BIAS

I think the current interpretation of the phrase "normal bias" found on the tape in the easter egg might be the wrong one. Public radio is commonly perceived as having a left leaning political bias. The addition of the word "normal" might refer to the perception that this political bias is normal for public radio. Further, "Normal bias" is in the label location, where the person who records something onto the tape indicates what the recording is or is about (such as "David Bowie" or "2007 mix tape"). If "normal bias" was actually referring to the technical design of the tape we might expect to find it stamped on the tape in a different location and in a different manner. We don't find other technical aspects of a tape or CD-R (such as "120 minutes" or "700 Mb") in the label area of the item. Any thoughts? Lynx 01:20, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm a little confused... just answering the last question you asked there, it's a cartoon, and TBC don't have time to draw in every little detail, especially on a tape or CD. Or Laserdisc. The "Normal Bias" label is there for satirical humor. I mean, what's funnier, "Normal Bias" or "TapeMakers 90 minutes"? Bluebry 01:27, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I just looked at what is posted about "normal bias" and I can see why you are confused. Let me clarify my previous post. If you follow the link on the word "bias" it will take you to a wikipedia article about tape bias, a technical development in sound reproduction for cassette tapes. By linking to this article, it is suggested that the use of the term "normal bias" in the cartoon refers to Tape Bias. My previous post was meant to argue that Tape Bias is the wrong way to interpret "normal bias" and that there is a better, more likely interpretation. My error was in thinking that the current interpretation is more obvious than it really is, thus I am at fault for your confusion. With this clarification in mind, I hope that my previous post is more clear to you. I propose that what is currently posted about "normal bias" be removed from the Trivia section and in it's place we use my interpretation to explain "normal bias" in the Real World References section. Lynx 02:30, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I think it's referring to tape bias — see geddup noise and Sketchbook 2006#SK-2006-08-31 for other places that this comes up in the Homestar Runner body of work. Trey56 02:36, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Good point. I am still puzzled why tech specs would be found in the user label portion of the tape, but the fact that the geddup noise radio station is a ribald morning show and not public radio demands the conclusion you have reached. Lynx 02:47, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I think they simply didn't put as much thought as you into what they put on the tape to make it look like a tape. - Qermaq - (^T/C)  02:56, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Also, bias is something that is applied to the tape when it is recorded, it's not inherent to the specific tape itself (though, different bias is better for different kinds of tape). When I used to work with tapes extensively I would always note on the label what bias I used to record the tape (in fact, there was typically a checkbox devoted to it on the user label).—BryanCTC 03:24, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Marzipan eats Marshmallows?!

A primary ingredient in Marshmallows is gelatin, which made from boiled animal bones. I don't think Marzipan would like this very much (since she is a vegetarian). Thoughts? I modified the article to show this, but it was reverted and claimed to be "nit-picking." Hardly. 70.58.71.12 02:33, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Is Marzipan a vegetarian? Can you cite where it's disclosed? - Qermaq - (^T/C)  02:57, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's mentioned without citation a couple times on this wiki... but the only thing close to an official statement that I see comes from a 2005 interview on NPR, in which the interviewer refers to Marzipan as "Homestar's Vegetarian girlfriend" and his statement is not refuted by TBC.—BryanCTC 03:05, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

It's pretty safe to assume that Marzipan is a vegetarian or vegan of some kind. Her mascara, for instance. The tofu BBQ, for another. Homestar Jr., for a third. You may not have a verbal confession from her, but all signs point to that assumption. I would suggest that based on the evidence we have it is harder to prove that she isn't a vegetarian than that she is. Lynx 03:28, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

However - Vegan Mascara might be a brand name. I like tofu almost as much as I like a steak. And reporters do get facts wrong sometimes, even NPR. I think it's just speculation to decide she's a vegan/strict vegetarian/weak vegetarian without explicit establishment. If the fact is included, it needs to be worded so as not to say she "is" a vegetarian, but that she might be; and also without weaseling the fact to the point of it no longer being notable. A challenge. - Qermaq - (^T/C)  03:37, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

All you need to prove that she isn't a vegetarian is an instance where she clearly violates general vegetarian protocol (marshmallows, we should agree, is a gray area). In the logic tradition and in real world common sense 'no instance of violating vegetarian protocol' + 'numerous instances of demonstrating vegetarian behavior' = 'the fair assumption that Marzipan is a vegetarian.' Put simply, I think your standard of proof is unnecessarily high. My standard is the one practiced in the disciplines of Philosophy, History, English, and Behavioral Psychology, to name a few, and ought to be sufficient for a silly cartoon web site. Your challenge does not need to be answered because a reasonable and sufficient argument has already been offered (not "just speculation"), not only by myself, but by Bryanc as well. Again, a contrary example is all you need to prove our contention false. Lynx 04:08, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Lynx, I don't need to prove she's not anything. The natural presumption is that people are like most other people unless there is evidence to the contrary. I maintain that calling her a vegetarian is speculative unless there is firm evidence. - Qermaq - (^T/C)  04:13, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I think what Lynx is trying to argue is that there is quite a lot of evidence. Each piece of evidence alone may be interpreted as circumstantial, but the summation of it all lends great credence to the probability that Marzipan is indeed a vegetarian. You are absolutely correct that there is no definitive proof. She sure eats like one though.—BryanCTC 04:41, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Qermaq, I didn't say you needed to prove anything- you have it backwards. I said that if you want to end all doubt and vindicate your position there is a simple way. I didn't say "you need to prove", I said "what you need to prove." There's a real difference there. I won't continue to rehash this topic with you, but I do want to say for the sake of others reading this that there is evidence that she is a vegetarian, the assumption is a reasonable one, not a speculative one, according to classical epistemology. Instead of yielding to better reasoning, my friend Qermaq seems to be ignoring the firm evidence provided and misinterpreting what I have said. I would that he follow my example from above (the BIAS discussion) and simply admit when he is beat. I will say no more.

On the Chinese Food Toons Menu TBC imply very strongly that Marzipan is a vegetarian in the subtext to The Reddest Radish. Also, if this is being questioned than it follows that The Luau, Marzipan, and Old-Timey Marzipan all should be re-worded also.—BryanCTC 03:47, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Incidentally, the word vegan was coined by The Vegan Society in the UK which still retains related trademarks. A mascara company would not likely be granted permission to use the word as a brand name, even if the product was vegan.—BryanCTC 04:06, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

You're confusing reality with the toon. I am not suggesting that "vegan" is indeed a brand name or even eligible to be one. I'm saying that in the H*R universe it could be intended as such. - Qermaq - (^T/C)  04:13, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

I meant that as a sort of trivial interjection, but even so, why would they choose that particular brand name?—BryanCTC 04:41, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Gelatin is sort of a gray area for some vegetarians, so are dairy products and eggs. Certainly there are vegetarians who will not eat them, vegans definitely won't, but I do know several vegetarians who do eat such things. I'm actually not against mentioning this fact in the article really, just wanted to mention that.—BryanCTC 03:12, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Further, this is Chilean Sea Marshmallow. Maybe it's a naturally-occurring plant life form, like the sea cucumber? Or maybe it's a soy-based marshmallow substitute? (What we really need is an Explanation about sea bass...) —AbdiViklas

It is possible to make vegetarian/vegan marshmallows without using gelatin. Given that Marzipan's exact status as a non-meat-eater is fuzzy, I think it would be a stretch to draw any kind of conclusion from the fact that she eats a marshmallow (which hardly count as food anyway). — It's dot com 04:04, 26 April 2007 (UTC)