User talk:Granola

Granola — Sat, 20 May 2006 18:33:22 GMT

Granola: /* For the record... */

User talk:Granola

Granola — Sat, 20 May 2006 18:23:03 GMT

Granola: /* For the record... */

User talk:Granola

Granola — Sat, 20 May 2006 18:00:14 GMT

Granola: /* For the record... */

<div class="usermessage">You have [[User talk:Granola/Yelt Archive|an archive]].</div>

== Welcome ==
Hey there Granola, this is [[User:ACupOfCoffee]], and on behalf of myself and the rest of the Welcoming Committee I'd like to welcome you to the Homestar Runner Wiki. If you've never contributed to a wiki-based project before,then it'd be worth your while to check out the [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Index MediaWiki User's Guide] and our own [[Help:Editing]] page. I need to let you know that before you start contributing substantially, you really ought to read our [[HRWiki:Standards]] page so you don't waste your time adding content that will just wind up deleted or worse, get you blocked from editing. If you have any questions, try the [[HRWiki:FAQ]], and if your question isn't answered there, post it at [[HRWiki talk:FAQ]].

You've got your own user page, and you can put basically anything you want on it as long as it our [[HRWiki:User space]] policies. Another page you'll probably visit a lot is our community portal: [[HRWiki:The Stick|The Stick]]. Remember, our goal here is a comprehensive Homestar Runner knowledge base. Oh, and don't forget to sign your posts on talk pages. Typing a string of 4 tildes (these little guys: "~") is all it takes. the system'll do the rest. I'm going to quit talking your ear off now and go do something productive.

Hope to see you around 

{{User:ACupOfCoffee/sig}} 23:36, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

==Welcome!==
Welcome! Again! Thare was no point of this! --{{User:The thing/sig}} 20:33, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

== Contributor ==

If you want to actually contribute, you can stay. If you're here to cause more trouble, you may not. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 18:30, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
:So, did you expect me to turn out to be Yelt? {{User:Granola/sig}} 18:31, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, yes. This is from Monday, February 20, 2006:<blockquote>[17:37] Dot_com: Yeltensic may have just created another account [17:37] Dot_com: Keep an eye on Granola [17:37] Heimstern: Seems not to have done anything odd yet. ... [23:04] Dot_com: well, either Granola really isn't Yeltensic, or he's certainly going out of his way this time [23:07] Heimstern: Yeah, I'd say so.</blockquote>[[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 18:38, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

== Signature ==
I suggest you sign on as Yeltensic and then copy your current sig. There would be less confusion that way. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 23:58, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
:You can't be 2 users. --{{User:The thing/sig}} 23:59, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
::I'm not sure I understand what you mean; what I meant is that I am the same person as Yeltensic. {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:01, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
:::You should be blocked then. --{{User:The thing/sig}} 00:02, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
::::No, they're letting me stay, but only with this account, not the old one. {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:03, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
:::::So long as he behaves this time, he's being allowed to stay. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 00:05, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
::::::Just as long as you know, Granola, I'm fine with you being here. Just don't want it to seem like I hate you. —[[User:BazookaJoe|BazookaJoe]] 00:08, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
:::::::It seems deep inside we all missed the guestbook crusader. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 00:11, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
::::::::Er, no, that's really not it at all. But if someone actually wants to be a real contributor, then we'll give him or her another chance. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:15, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::I smell a hint of hostility in that, Dot commy. But yeah, I guess we don't really miss you, but rather we're lifting the grudge. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 00:19, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Woah. That was a surprise. {{User:Bluebry muffin/sig}} 00:20, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
:Yeah, it's like... Yeltensic... without all the... Yeltensic-ness. Glad to see you want to be an actual contributor again, Yelt, er, Granola. I always thought you were a cool guy. Now we just have to figure out what to do with Dr. Who... {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 00:36, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
::Feel free to still call me Yelt or Yelty or Yeltensic. In fact, I'd rather be called that. (if I had my way I'd go back to using the Yeltensic account, but I'm not allowed to). {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:40, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry I called you guys douchebags! {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:40, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
:Dot com really hit the nail on the head, huh? It seems that all is completely forgiven. Now that Yelt has taken the time to think abou this, it's a whole lot better. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 00:45, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

== To you, ==

Don't go [http://hrwooky.wikicities.com/ here]. They'll block you. --{{User:The thing/sig}} 00:03, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
:The thing, I meant that before he apologized in his email to me. Whatev, if the wiki accepts him, we should too. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 00:08, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

== Redirect ==
You don't seem to understand something: ''We are erasing all of evidence that you are Yeltensic''. We are saving you the embarassment of tyour history here. Please don't associate with him/you. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 00:25, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
:Seriosly, please be quiet. Leave the Human Resources job to the sysops. Thanks. —[[User:BazookaJoe|BazookaJoe]] 00:31, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
::I see that you mean well, Seriously, but I want it know that I'm Yelt, because I want it known that I'm the same person as Yeltensic42 from Wikipedia, and Yeltensic on several other sites. {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:35, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
:::Yeah, I like, cry when large amounts of information is delorted for good. STUFF is different, though. {{User:Bluebry muffin/sig}} 00:36, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
::::Uh....— {{User: Seriously/sig}} 00:38, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
:::::I don't have a problem! I have multiple ones. {{User:Bluebry muffin/sig}} 02:14, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

== Signature II: ''Son of "Signature"'' ==
Pardon the cool movie intro I stole from Abdiviklas. Anyway, I changed my sig to teal. That way people can tell our sig apart better. Just a heads up. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 21:20, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
:Well now it's kind of like I forced you out of your sig, but thanks, that's prolly a good idea. As you can see, the comster also made me change my sig so that it doesn't say,"I'm Yelt." {{User:Granola/sig}} 05:24, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
::Yeah, I like it better when it's teal anyway. But feel free to copy that too. And Dot com's right, I think he just wants you to turn over a new leaf. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 02:53, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
:::He ''did'' say that in a month or so, though, if I stay out of trouble, I might be allowed to use my original account again instead of this one. Keeping my fingers crossed. {{User:Granola/sig}} 06:57, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

==From sig talkpage==

You can't be Yeltensic! He's already a user this is called trolling. --{{User:The thing/sig}} 23:57, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

:I'm the same person as Yeltensic, I guess you missed all the excitement earlier. {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:00, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

::Shouldn't you be blocked then? --{{User:The thing/sig}} 00:00, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

:::No, they're letting me stay, but only with this account, not the old one. {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:02, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

::::Don't go [http://hrwooky.wikicities.com/ here]. They'll block you. --{{User:The thing/sig}} 00:03, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

== I'm amazed. ==
I never thought that someone would make a cool people list funnier than mine. That is truly hilarious. You, good sir, are amazing. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 04:31, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
:Thank you...but make no mistake about it, your list is hilarious. Plus I got the idea from you. {{User:Granola/sig}} 04:39, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

==Signature III: ''The Revenge''==

Hey Granola. I've noticed your signature is significantly longer than the current wiki [[HRWiki:Signature|signature standards]]. Below is your current signature, with the blue box being the maximum length allowed. Obviously keeping "With crap" in your signature pushes it significantly over the maximum. I'm sure you can come up with a way to shrink it back within the limits. Thanks alot, {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 00:41, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

{{User:Granola/sig}} 
[[Image:sigbox.png]]

:It just barely fits now. {{User:Granola/sig}} 08:13, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

:It seems like you should be able to do that, doesn't it? Sorry. No dice. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 23:49, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

::I'm sorry, I don't quite get what you mean.... {{User:Granola/sig}} 23:51, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Looks like you're trying to get a sig from the test page rather from the sig page. I quoted Peasant's Quest. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 23:54, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

:Yeah, that's what I did...you can do it, all I had to do was set my sig in my preferences as the test page instead of my sig page. I then signed the page, to see if it would create some sort of endless tunnel effect. {{User:Granola/sig}} 23:57, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
::Dude, I think you broke the Internet. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 00:12, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
:::Did it really cause any kind of damage to this site? If if does do anything harmful, I'll stop... {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:14, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
::::We,, not damage, but IDC might not want you calling up his page... {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 00:22, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
:::::Yeah, perhaps not...that was only temporary though. {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:25, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
::::::Was pretty cool though. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 00:26, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
::::::Thanks. {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:27, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

==Test==

{{Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous}}

==Welcome==

Thank you! How did you type all of that so quicly though?! -I'maCluelessNewbie

:Your welcome. It was a template; I just copied and pasted it. I ''wish'' I could type that fast. BTW, please remember to type four tildes (these things: ~) after your messages, to produce your sig and the time/date. {{User:Granola/sig}} 17:14, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

== I'maCluelessNewbie ==

Um... Is there some reason you created—and then welcomed—"User:I'maCluelessNewbie"? — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 17:14, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

:Heh..I was afraid you might be online, and would notice that. No, there's no reason, I was just bored. I shoulda done that at my other house, so I could use different IPs on two computers. (Or, rather, I shoulda just been doing my schoolwork....) {{User:Granola/sig}} 17:16, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

::Bored or not, please don't do that, wherever you happen to find yourself. At the very least, it creates clutter in the database and more things for the rest of us to keep track of; and on the other end of the spectrum, it could appear that you are trying to create sockpuppets. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 17:20, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, I won't do that. Sorry. You can go ahead and delete the account if you want. I wasn't going to use it for any vandalism. {{User:Granola/sig}} 17:22, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

::::I didn't think you were; I just meant that it could appear that way to others. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 17:24, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

:::::Yeah, I can see how it might appear that way...I guess I don't exactly have the best record, huh? {{User:Granola/sig}} 17:26, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

==The Saga of Yelt==

I read it :) and don't worry about copying my idea, that got bumped from my list of pages a few days ago. See ya around. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 04:27, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

:Of course, you were ''part'' of the saga, so you already knew all of it...did you run and look at the source code? Tsk tsk. :) {{User:Granola/sig}} 04:29, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

== I don't take requests! ==
Yeah I do. Anyway, here it is:
{{Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous}}

Just wondering, though: what are you planning to do with it? — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 02:31, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I meant my talkpage on Wikipedia. {{User:Granola/sig}} 02:32, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

==Sandbox==

Hey Granola, I've noticed you've been bumming around in the Sandbox alot recently. Might I suggest [http://www.editthis.info/add_wiki.php creating your own wiki]? Many users, such as [[User:The thing|The thing]] have done this, including [http://www.editthis.info/thunderbird/index.php/Main_Page myself]. It's a great place to just edit and test whatever the heck you want. Let me know if you make one, and I'll come and visit. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 04:37, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

:Heh, I guess everyone noticed that. Funny you mention that, I put in a request at Wikicities the other day to found a [[Wikipedia:Talking Heads|Talking Heads]] wiki. I guess that wouldn't be exactly my own wiki, but it would be sorta like that. (I'm not sure why I did that though, I need to be spending ''less'' time on the Internet, it's cutting into school..hmm that reminds me, I should have gone to bed 3 hours ago, it's a school night..ah well.) I guess I could mess around on the Heads wiki until lots of people join, then start a sandbox yeltensic wiki, even if that would be (I'm starting to lose count) 8 sites I'm obligated to (10 if you count wikis on Wikicities seperately). But anyway, that's a good idea, thanks. Recent changes patrollers will prolly make that an official holiday. :) {{User:Granola/sig}} 08:18, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

== For the record... ==
It was entirely my fault when I got blocked, and it was entirely justified. Look back through the whole story and you'll realize how. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 00:46, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:I remember it (it happened literally right before I joined as Yeltensic, and I looked through all the edit histories involved, and as it happened, it had a not insignificant amount to do with why I started vandalizing), and I don't think it was your fault at all. {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:49, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Granola, you really have some nerve. I am astounded by just how much you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. By the way, have you made any [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&offset=0&limit=100&target=Granola&namespace=0 main namespace] contributions lately? No? Not in over two months? Then stop giving us advice about how to run this wiki, because we really don't care what you think. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:51, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:I'm very sorry that I disagree with Darth and Seriously's blocks. {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:54, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
::Nice userbox there. </sarcasm> Yeah, I really ''can'' see you have some nerve. You grudge the admins at any chance you get. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 00:59, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

::::I hadn't made any edits lately (because A)I've been spending less time on the Internet, having somewhat more of a life now and B)I've been spending more of my Internet time on IMDB and MySpace), and I came back to find this going on.. {{User:Granola/sig}} 01:02, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
::::Actually, notice how several of them are on my Cool People list.. {{User:Granola/sig}} 01:02, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::Well, you sure don't treat them like cool people. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 01:04, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::Really Granola, The 10-year old does not tell how the parent should drive. {{User:Dacheatbot/sig}} 01:05, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

::::::I still think they're cool, I just happen to disagree with them here, and I think it's irritating that they're evidently unable to handle criticism. {{User:Granola/sig}} 01:15, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::::To the anon who removed Seriously and Dacheatbot's comments: don't do that. Everyone's comments are welcome on my talkpage. {{User:Granola/sig}} 01:15, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
::::::::They can handle critisism. They are good people. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 01:16, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::They ''are'' good people, and generally do a good job..but like everyone, they make mistakes sometimes, and some of them don't seem to be very good at handling criticism; they're probably used to going unquestioned because they normally do a goob job. {{User:Granola/sig}} 01:19, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Sheesh. I refer you to my comments above. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:20, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:Which ones? {{User:Granola/sig}} 01:23, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
::Really? My last comments. The only ones in this thread. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:26, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

:::I wasn't sure whether you were also including the ones further up, perhaps the ones that had to do with my return. Anyway. If you're going to essentially prove my point, guess what, Dot com? Maybe, just maybe, I don't care what ''you'' think anymore. {{User:Granola/sig}} 01:29, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

::::Well, that's fine with us. Frankly, we don't care what you think, and if you want to neglect his opinions, then that's okay. But little do you know that you're the wrong one here. Being hostile will not help anything. You are ''so below'' him, it's not even funny. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 03:20, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, that'll teach me not to ever defend you again. My apologies. {{User:Granola/sig}} 03:58, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

haha loks lik yelnetsic got himslef in trobl ha ha wll neway im on u guyz sid yetlensic SUCKS!!!! -Droifc

:Yeltensic is not a ten-year-old, for your information. He is one of Wikipedia's most popular editors and he almost got elected to be a wiki admin. So you'd all best watch your mouth; after all, you ''do'' want him to be a merciful admin down at Wikipedia, now don't you? LOL. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}

::Yeltensic's activities at Wikipedia are not of our concern. And, with all due respect, I wouldn't define a three-to-twenty-one [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Yeltensic42.618|decline]] as "almost". — {{User:Lapper/sig}} 17:43, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:::Lapper's right, I lost in a landslide. I don't think I'll be running again either. They just have to worry about me being a merciful admin at Dandypedia, mwahahaha. {{User:Granola/sig}} 17:45, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Look, guys, from [[HRWiki:Administrators]]....

"''Sysops are not imbued with any special authority'', and are equal to everyone else in terms of editorial responsibility. Some consider the terms "Sysop" and "Administrator" to be misnomers, as they just indicate users who have had performance- and security-based restrictions on several features lifted because they seemed like trustworthy folks. ''Sysops should not have power over other users other than applying decisions made by all users''."

..so, Seriously was blocked for disobeying admins, not actually disobeying the policies of the community...hey, wait a minute! Something doesn't add up here... {{User:Granola/sig}} 17:34, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

:Incidentally, that text was taken verbatim from Wikipedia way back when we set up that page. It's probably due for an update. Nevertheless, it refers to questions of article content, not user behavior. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 17:46, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
::Well, you should update it before you guys start acting as if it's been updated already. How can you expect users to follow policies that don't exist yet? It's absurd. (probably the main advantage the admins have here is that they're the only ones who bothered to read the rules). {{User:Granola/sig}} 17:49, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:::If it's your opinion that the sysops are changing the rules so you and yours are disenfranchised, I think you're a little deluded. In the end, you may choose to participate here or not, but participating here needs to be in the spirit of community building, not accusations based on insufficient understanding of fact, as this debate here and elsewhere has been liberally peppered. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 17:53, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
::::Really? What else do you call insisting that non-admins follow admins' every command, when no such requirement exists? {{User:Granola/sig}} 17:55, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::Because we need no requiremtn. We only need good judgment, and that means following the sysops. Why do you think they are sysops? Because they know what's best, do they not? You act like we're slaves, but you don't realize that they're right. Why else would we follow them and not you? — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 17:57, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
::::::The sysops don't ''always'' make good decisions. No one is perfect, not even them. {{User:Granola/sig}} 18:00, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

User talk:Granola

Granola — Sat, 20 May 2006 17:55:44 GMT

Granola: /* For the record... */

User talk:Granola

Granola — Sat, 20 May 2006 17:49:34 GMT

Granola: /* For the record... */

User talk:Granola

Granola — Sat, 20 May 2006 17:45:47 GMT

Granola: /* For the record... */

Talk:If I Ran the Camera

Granola — Sat, 20 May 2006 17:42:57 GMT

Granola: /* Privacy */

'''''Copied from [[Talk:Secret Pages]].'''''

I was just poking around the Wayback Machine and I found [http://web.archive.org/web/20021112210701/homestarrunner.com/ifiranthecamera this]. It doesn't seem to be on the current site and my computer is weird about some of the wayback archives. Can anybody get it to work? --'''[[user:mibluvr13|mibluvr13]][[User talk:mibluvr13|dígame]]''' 15:42, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:No good, the wayback machine never stored the swf. <tt>[[User:Homestar Coder|Aurora the Homestar Coder]]</tt> 15:14, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

::Aw man! I guess we'll never know what it was... --'''[[user:mibluvr13|mibluvr13]][[User talk:mibluvr13|dígame]]''' 15:42, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

If we ignore the stuff that the Wayback Machine added to the source, we get this: (Yes, I know we're not supposed to use the <nowiki><pre></nowiki> tag anymore, but it works better for page sources): 
<pre><HEAD>
<BASE HREF="http://homestarrunner.com/ifiranthecamera">

<TITLE>If I Ran the Camera</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgcolor="#000000">


<center><OBJECT classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000"
codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=5,0,0,0"
WIDTH=550 HEIGHT=400>
<PARAM NAME=movie VALUE="ifiranthecamera.swf"> <PARAM NAME=quality VALUE=high> <PARAM NAME=bgcolor VALUE=#FFFFFF> <EMBED src="ifiranthecamera.swf" quality=high bgcolor=#FFFFFF WIDTH=550 HEIGHT=400 TYPE="application/x-shockwave-flash" PLUGINSPAGE="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"></EMBED>
</OBJECT></center>
</BODY>

<script language="JavaScript">

</script></pre>

Very long, but from what I can guess, it appears to be a kids' poem. Note the use of "Grandpa Chapman" throughout. Unless she's the [[Little Girl]], I have no idea who "Astrid Renee" is. --{{User:Venusy/Sig}}, 11:21, 25 June 2005 (BST)

Here's a quick solution to your If I ran the camera questions which I am also dying to know about: Email TBC and ask about it. --[[User:Darklinkskywalker|Darklinkskywalker]] 23:10, 13 Jul 2005 (UTC)

E-mail sent, awaiting reply... --{{User:Darklinkskywalker/DLSsignature}}

:She is the daughter of The Brothers Chaps' sister and brother-in-law. I don't know if it has already been resolved or figured out, but I wish to note this. — {{User:Lapper/sig}} 15:00, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

== Research ==

I know it's not much, but I found two forum posts that referenced the toon: [http://com1.runboard.com/bhomestarfreaks.fhomestardiscussion.t85] and [http://www.burninghorizon.com/hsrforum/index.php?PHPSESSID=e09327f86ed942bb82bfde8b07130b7a&topic=799.msg11775#msg11775]. Also, I wasn't sure how obvious this was, but the Internet Archive made the copy of the source on Nov. 12, 2002. That might help in further research attempts.[[User:Tom|<nowiki></nowiki>]] -- [[User:Tom|Tom]] 23:45, 28 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== Flash File! ==

Dwedit found the Flash file! (See external links) - {{User:Kookykman/sig}}

Yeah, I had that on my computer ever since I noticed that the WS_FTP.LOG file was wide open, so I downloaded every file from the site at that time. How I found the WF_FTP.LOG file? I was looking in /menuswfs, and got a directory listing, and there was a nice big conspicuous WS_FTP.LOG file sitting in that folder. I posted the taryngame.swf link onto fark.com, then blabbed about the ftp log on some other message board. Someone else also might have found it at the same time, since I heard about it on fark.com comments as well. So I saw that this page said "the swf file is lost to the ages", laughed, then uploaded the file on my comcast webspace. Just contributing my share... TBC, please don't sue me.--[[User:Dwedit|Dwedit]] 05:18, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Erm... sorry, but I can't exactly find the link to the flash file. Where is it?

[[User:spywaremagnet|spywaremagnet]] 9:28 AM, November 30 2005

== Fun Fact ==
The fun fact you added isn't really needed, as it's mentioned in the description. - {{User:Joshua/sig}}

:Whoops! Sorry about that - [[User:Volbeat A The Cheat|Volbeat A The Cheat]] 08:44, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

== Grandpa ==

Now that we have the Flash file, we can confirm it ''is'' the Brothers Chaps' father. If you look when "young Astrid Renee" has a stack of papers, the top one reads "Screenplay by Don Chapman". That proves it, don't it? --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]

If this is true (which I believe, if we know Don is their father) then that means that-- wait. Do the two Chapmans have any siblings? Mike and Matt? They have to, because of the [[Little Girl]], because that would prove that the little girl is the girl here. --{{User:Salty/sig}} 03:28, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
:[[The Brothers Chaps#Family]] says they have three other siblings. Until we know that two of them ''don't'' have daughters, that means there's no way to know for sure it ''is'' her. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 04:04, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
::My point, though, stands that we ''do'' know who the Grandpa is: [[Don and Harriet Chapman|Don Chapman]]. I just don't know where to put it in the article. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
:::And I like how it looks now. Nice way of putting it. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
::::Now with "Other Little Girl", it's opened a whole 'nother confuzzery. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 22:53, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
:::::Perhaps the Brothers Chaps saw we found this and added the new Little Girl, just to confuse us. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
:::::I bet at least two of their 3 siblings have daughters. My theory: One sibling had the first little girl, the blond one who is most likely Astrid Renee. Another sibling had the Other Little Girl, who is only in the new Puppet toon. Either of them couldd be Astrid, though. --{{User:Salty/sig}} 03:28, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
:::::I tend to think that the Other Little Girl is a friend's daughter, since she lacks the [[Family Resemblence]] to the Chapos that Little Girl has, but of course, Other Little Girl could still be related. Count me as a vote towards Little Girl as Astrid. —{{User:Mibluvr13/sig}} 03:31, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
::::::You know what guys? After further reflection, I'm flip flopping my interest in checking this out. TBC are somewhat protective of information about themselves, choosing to appear only in the DVDs, and are obviously not going out of their way to make information on their extended family easily accessible. I'd like to respect that; the fact that it involves minors brings even more privacy issues into it. We can speculate privately, but I think the less talk the better. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 03:57, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

== Privacy ==

From the wiki article:
"It was removed from the site sometime in 2003, after the Brothers Chaps realized that fans had unearthed the secret page."

My interpretation of this is that this movie was never meant for the public eye, and that they didn't really want us to see it... Isn't it extremely rude and not-real-fan-like to mirror it here? {{unsigned|193.217.163.116|07:59, 6 April 2006 (UTC)}}

:That line seems very speculative, but [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=If_I_Ran_the_Camera&diff=176191&oldid=171542 when it was added] [[User:Mibluvr13|Mibluvr13]] mentioned doing some research. I'll ask where she got her info on her user talk page. -- [[User:Tom|Tom]] 10:38, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

::The only sources I had were a few forum posts, so obviously, they're not very authoritative. It was last October, so I don't know exactly where I got that, but I did manage to find a post on [http://com1.runboard.com/bhomestarfreaks.fhomestardiscussion.t85 this page] that said "It was about some baby and Strong Dad but The Chaps took it down when they found out people were looking through the homestarrunner.com files." I might have gotten it from that. Take that part off if you want, but I've always found If I Ran the Camera to be a touchy subject to begin with. —{{User:Mibluvr13/sig}} 00:06, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

:::This wasn't meant for our eyes, this is a total invasion of their privacy. Let's have some courtesy and take this down, especially after their dad died. Don't be rabid, zealous Homestar freaks bent on disecting the entire site. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}

::::Dartha Katana X, thank you for once again for taking what we do here and turning it into a demeaning one sentence statement. I've warned you before about putting us down every chance that you get, and this time you've taken it too far by bringing such a sensitive topic into it. I'm restricting your editing privileges for one month, and I hope you take that time to grow up a little. I know full well that you take pride in getting attention for talking down to us and being as abrasive as possible. Here's a suggestion: be a nicer guy and people will give you more than attention—they'll give you respect. -- [[User:Tom|Tom]] 01:38, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

:::::How mature. That just proves that you're only intent on getting your hands on any information you can, even if it means potentially offending The Brothers Chaps, and then you accuse '''me''' of being the one bringing up a "sensitive topic." So, Tom, which matters more to you, your site or two real people? Whoops, I guess you're just gonna ban me for another month (or perhaps forever) because I asked you a question that you don't want to answer. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}

::::::Hey there Darth Katana X! Good to see you back. See, the thing is, the two choices you present me aren't based on fact, and they really boil down to being a [[Wikipedia:False dilemma|false dilemma]] (with a little [[Wikipedia:Poisoning the well|poisoning of the well]] thrown in there at the end). We do not know that The Brothers Chaps would be offended by this article. That's your assumption. We do not speculate about the opinions of The Brothers Chaps. You also make some pretty serious assumptions about my motives too. If we were contacted by The Brothers Chaps and asked to take down this article, we would without any hesitation. We aren't heartless, and you shouldn't assume that we are.
::::::This site is not mine, not any more than it is yours. This is a community driven site where we all work together. And that community has deemed that the article is worth keeping, and unless we receive word from The Brothers Chaps that they would like us to remove it, it stays.
::::::I'd also like to take this opportunity to remind you that you are walking a very fine line, and I advise you to be cautious, because any deviation by you from our policies and guidelines will result in serious repercussions.
::::::Take care, and welcome back. -- [[User:Tom|Tom]] 06:56, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I agree with Tom. We shouldn't speculate regarding how they feel, in fact most of what they have said about the Wiki thusfar has been very positive. Unless they say something in the future about this page, there is no reason to take it down based on speculation. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 06:58, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

::::::::Wow, I'm being welcomed back, and my head hasn't been freshly chewed off? Cool. All right, but we should still ''think'' about taking it down. It isn't really worth having up anyway since it doesn't benefit the site. Too bad I have male PMS. Because now I feel like a (insert your favorite expletive here), but I also feel like being a more compassionate person. Weird. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
:::::::::Welcome back. You shouldn't be surprised. A cursory look over the recent edits shows a lot of positive input here, and that yields positive interactions. As far as this page goes, it seems we are ''thinking'' about its status, and we shall continue to do so. Be prepared for concensus to differ from your opinion, as so often happens to me. I've had male PMS for about 6 months now, and yes it can be frustrating to see things go in a direction we disagree with, but the trick is to say your piece like a man and take the result like a man. (Lady-types, you can instead take it like a "woman".) Avoid the temptation to assume "victory" or "defeat" when your suggestions aren't accepted: if the concensus of the wiki is served, it is a victory. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 09:20, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::::Welcome back, Darth Katana X. It's good to have a man with a good sense of humor stay on the wiki, even after having to neglect it for a month. Yeah, I totally agree with Tom. Yes, it would seem that TBC wouldn't like us seeing this, but they ''do'' keep a close eye on us. After all, we document every single thing they ever made in Homestar Runner. :P I can safely say they know full well we're doing this, and if they haven't requested anything yet, then we should keep it. You can't assume their feelings, even if their feelings seem obvious to you. Also, try not to assume the worst from everything; I've seen far-too-many quotes that sound depressing and almost unwanting of the people around you. For example: <tt>"Wow, I'm being welcomed back, and my head hasn't been freshly chewed off?"</tt> <tt>"Whoops, I guess you're just gonna ban me for another month (or perhaps forever) because I asked you a question that you don't want to answer."</tt> The people around you are ''nice''—and I don't think Tom, or anyone else, really hates you—people are blocked everyday, but the important thing is to stay mature and respectful toward the people who blocked you. They always have a good reason for what they do. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 11:15, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::::I think it's probably OK to keep this page, but a month seems a bit long to be blocked for disagreeing. {{User:Granola/sig}} 13:18, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Except that wasn't the only reason. Given that the block is up—and that this talk page is for discussing the article, not a user—I think it would be best just to move on already. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 13:27, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, there were similar things like this before, yes, but still. I'm not saying that the vandalism I did in the past was right, but I will say that it was largely because of this sort of thing. {{User:Granola/sig}} 13:35, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

:I hope you're not suggesting that that's supposed to excuse it. Agressive, systematic, sustained vandalism is abominable in any context. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 13:45, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::But there's no reason to encourage it, and that's exactly what this sort of thing does. {{User:Granola/sig}} 14:03, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::''Please.'' People are responsible for their own actions. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 14:09, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::::Of course they are, but that doesn't mean the admins should encourage vandalism. Surely it's better for everyone if fewer users ''want'' to vandalize. {{User:Granola/sig}} 14:13, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::Neither I nor any other admin have ever encouraged anyone to vandalize. We do our best to present calm, logical discussions. How people respond to that is completely up to them. If someone is not mature enough to find an alternate way to get their point across and thus ''resorts'' to vandalism, then that's their problem, not ours. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 14:21, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::::::I'm sure none of the admins have ever deliberately encouraged vandalism, and you're right, they/you are good about presenting calm, logical discussions, but such a draconian measure as a month-long block for what Darth did is kinda asking for it. {{User:Granola/sig}} 14:25, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::::It doesn't seem like it was very long to me, especially given that the attitude of the blocked user had not changed at the outset of this morning's discussion. A month might seem like a long time in Internet time, but it's a lot less than a year, or indefinite. No matter what the length of the block, we will not be swayed by the threat of vandalism, no matter how much one thinks we are "asking for it". — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 14:34, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::::::::His attitude? That's kind of my point. He was blocked for a month because he disagreed with the admins and didn't keep his opinion to himself. {{User:Granola/sig}} 14:37, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::Please understand, he was not blocked for disagreeing with ''admins'' per se. It's true that there were admins in the group of ''users'' he disagreed with, but he was blocked for being unwilling to help reach consensus and then follow it once it was established. No one is ever required to keep an opinion quiet, even if it goes against the majority. What we won't tolerate, however, is someone belligerently assuming that their dissenting opinion is and can be the only correct one and then going on to state their opinion in as many offensive ways as possible. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 14:46, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, OK, users that included admins. It prolly didn't help that the group of said users included admins. Anyway, the only even slightly offensive thing in his first post here was the comment about zealous Homestar freaks, which was pretty minor indeed. A reprimand, perhaps, but a block, let alone a ''month''-long block? {{User:Granola/sig}} 14:52, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:Nobody ever said that he was blocked for this talk page alone. In fact, we've said the exact opposite. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 14:58, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::Yes, I know there were some other times. Still... {{User:Granola/sig}} 15:04, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::It wasn't just the post above, (in which the most offensive part was bringing up Don Chapman's passing and using it as a lever, not the "rabid, zealous Homestar freaks" comment), and also the long campaign he went on at [[Talk:Visor Robot]], and a couple of other places too. The post above was merely the last straw, as far as the admin team were concerned. {{User:Phlip/sig}} 15:05, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::::You mean the discussion in which the consensus weighed in Darth's favor (even some admins agreed with him) and he got frustrated when nothing happened, because a few higher-ranking admins disagreed with the consensus? {{User:Granola/sig}} 15:22, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::No, we mean the discussion where he was combative, where he uploaded an image accusing us of routinely making up information and calling it canon, and where he used a term for that action that was found offensive by other users. This is not to mention the near-continuous putting down of the wiki, his involvement with it, and its admins. This goes to show that it really doesn't matter whether or not someone is correct if the way they present their ideas causes others not to listen. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 15:39, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

He could have been more polite there, yes, but he was basically right. I should think the community should be able to decide on substance over style (not to mention that the consenus was in his favor anyway, not that it mattered). That ties in with my earlier point, actually; if admins are going to use their adminship to override consensus (especially when common sense is against them), they shouldn't be very surprised when a non-admin gets combative. {{User:Granola/sig}} 15:47, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:But the consensus ''wasn't'' in his favour. He was insistant on moving [[Visor Robot]] to [[Fhqwhgads Robot]], and very few other people where. Attempts at compromise that left it at [[Visor Robot]] (like my adding "Though he has never been officially named..." to the article, which, admittedly, should have been there already) fell on deaf ears. The idea of a merge to [[Robots]] was considered a good idea by some and a bad idea by others – that's ''not'' a consensus in either direction – a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] is where nearly everyone agrees, or is at least happy to live with it (as opposed to a majority in which the people who want it simply outweigh the people that don't). And "common sense" is subjective – Darth thinks it's common sense for the page to use the only name mentioned on the site, I think it's common sense for the page to not use a name for a character that predates the name (Visor Robot was introduced before [[i love you]]). Both of these opinions stem from "common sense", so you can't use it as an objective standpoint. {{User:Phlip/sig}} 16:06, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::Has content been removed from the talkpage? When I read that discussion, I saw that, perhaps not a consensus, but a substantial majority, agreed with Darth. {{User:Granola/sig}} 16:12, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::Nothing's been removed... [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Talk%3AVisor_Robot&diff=0&oldid=305990 this] is a diff of all edits after Darth's last on that page. What you might be remembering as agreement was the fact that everyone agreed that "Visor Robot" was not the character's name. What was disagreed about was whether this was a problem that needed to be fixed. {{User:Phlip/sig}} 16:22, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::::I'm talking about the agreement that Visor Robot shouldn't be the name of the article. {{User:Granola/sig}} 16:27, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::As Phlip has pointed out, that issue is still under discussion. It's really beside the point here, though, because regardless of one's stand on any particular issue and the underlying validity of that stand, one must take into account that the method of one's presentation can have consequences. That's just the way the world works, and this wiki is no exception in that regard. To draw an analogy, at the end of ''Liar Liar'', Jim Carrey's character was correct in saying that his client had won on an unimportant technicality and that it was therefore likely a miscarriage of justice, but he was nevertheless held in contempt for the way he yelled it at the judge. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:38, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

True, but sometimes you have to yell to get your point across. To draw an analogy, look at any protest/demonstration. {{User:Granola/sig}} 17:13, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

:Whatever, dude. Violent or unruly demonstrations are a waste of time. You'll either be ignored or doused with pepper spray. People might even take the opposite view from you just as a reaction. On the other hand, peaceful, uplifting demonstrations often have lasting, positive impacts. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 17:24, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::I wasn't talking about ''violent'' demonstrations, but whatever. This has become a waste of our time. {{User:Granola/sig}} 17:39, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

:::Thank you for accusing me of "using Don Chapman's passing as a lever," Phlip. Shows how much ''you'' know. That leaves a particularly bad taste in my mouth because there are some people out there who actually ''would'' do something like that (I won't go into any further detail). {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}

::::Avtually, that whole comment shows how much ''you'' know. phlip (I prefer using his name with a lowercase p, as that's what is in his sig) was completely right. Maybe you didn't mean to, but yes, you definitely used it as a lever. Now can we please drop this discussion? If you insist on continuing it, please move this to your talk page. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 00:24, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

::::Do I smell a hint of hypocrisy from the admins here? It's OK for the admins to accuse Darth of taking advantage of Don Chapman's death, but it's terrible for him to say that this article is an invasion of the Chaps' privacy? Oh, and I think I already mentioned that I disagree with Darth (if they didn't want anyone to see it, why did they stick it on HR.com in the first place?), so if his comments are such horrible blanket insults of everyone with a different opinion, why do I not feel insulted? Oh, right, it's because they ''aren't''. Silly me! {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:33, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::There's a difference between shamelessly using it as a lever and just pointing out that it such circumstances might make them more likely to dislike an invasion of their privacy (although, as I said, I don't really have a problem with this article). {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:33, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::::Yeah, Tom's apostles don't like what I have to say. But they have it coming because they know I'm right. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
::::::::Please, Granola. I'ma repeat this one more time: '''Darth Katana X was blocked for more than just this'''. So please, just stop talking in this discussion. Now. It's over, we've said all we've needed to say. You're just repeating yourself. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 00:36, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::Jesus Christ....man, you're starting to make me laugh because of your arrogance. Please, stop before I spit my water out. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 00:40, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::Sorry, I just hate seeing draconian-ally (not a word, but oh well) long blocks for such minor things. Even worse was when you were blocked for a week for something that was Ciberdude's fault. I could go on and on, but I won't.. {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:43, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::::I agree that Darth's comments here have gotten increasingly arrogant. But notice how that was ''after'' he had already been unfairly blocked etc. {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:43, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::::How sad. I have seen political elections with more respect for each other. "Tom's apostles"? "They know I am right"? Your logic is quite impressive. Darth Katana X, this is your final warning. If you insult the admins, or any other user for that matter, you will be banned again. Now, I doubt that some of you remember what this entire section is about. I am fine with the transcript here, but I wouldn't mind seeing the link go. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 00:45, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

{{userbox|border=#00008B|mainbkgd=#F5F5F5|codebkgd=#0000CD |codecolor=#FFFFFF|code=Plaque|msg=Here it is, a thread where, in May 2006, a handful of admins turned one or two users against the wiki'''.}}

User talk:Granola

Granola — Sat, 20 May 2006 17:34:58 GMT

Granola: /* For the record... */

<div class="usermessage">You have [[User talk:Granola/Yelt Archive|an archive]].</div>

== Welcome ==
Hey there Granola, this is [[User:ACupOfCoffee]], and on behalf of myself and the rest of the Welcoming Committee I'd like to welcome you to the Homestar Runner Wiki. If you've never contributed to a wiki-based project before,then it'd be worth your while to check out the [http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Index MediaWiki User's Guide] and our own [[Help:Editing]] page. I need to let you know that before you start contributing substantially, you really ought to read our [[HRWiki:Standards]] page so you don't waste your time adding content that will just wind up deleted or worse, get you blocked from editing. If you have any questions, try the [[HRWiki:FAQ]], and if your question isn't answered there, post it at [[HRWiki talk:FAQ]].

You've got your own user page, and you can put basically anything you want on it as long as it our [[HRWiki:User space]] policies. Another page you'll probably visit a lot is our community portal: [[HRWiki:The Stick|The Stick]]. Remember, our goal here is a comprehensive Homestar Runner knowledge base. Oh, and don't forget to sign your posts on talk pages. Typing a string of 4 tildes (these little guys: "~") is all it takes. the system'll do the rest. I'm going to quit talking your ear off now and go do something productive.

Hope to see you around 

{{User:ACupOfCoffee/sig}} 23:36, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

==Welcome!==
Welcome! Again! Thare was no point of this! --{{User:The thing/sig}} 20:33, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

== Contributor ==

If you want to actually contribute, you can stay. If you're here to cause more trouble, you may not. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 18:30, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
:So, did you expect me to turn out to be Yelt? {{User:Granola/sig}} 18:31, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, yes. This is from Monday, February 20, 2006:<blockquote>[17:37] Dot_com: Yeltensic may have just created another account [17:37] Dot_com: Keep an eye on Granola [17:37] Heimstern: Seems not to have done anything odd yet. ... [23:04] Dot_com: well, either Granola really isn't Yeltensic, or he's certainly going out of his way this time [23:07] Heimstern: Yeah, I'd say so.</blockquote>[[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 18:38, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

== Signature ==
I suggest you sign on as Yeltensic and then copy your current sig. There would be less confusion that way. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 23:58, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
:You can't be 2 users. --{{User:The thing/sig}} 23:59, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
::I'm not sure I understand what you mean; what I meant is that I am the same person as Yeltensic. {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:01, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
:::You should be blocked then. --{{User:The thing/sig}} 00:02, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
::::No, they're letting me stay, but only with this account, not the old one. {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:03, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
:::::So long as he behaves this time, he's being allowed to stay. --{{User:Jay/sig}} 00:05, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
::::::Just as long as you know, Granola, I'm fine with you being here. Just don't want it to seem like I hate you. —[[User:BazookaJoe|BazookaJoe]] 00:08, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
:::::::It seems deep inside we all missed the guestbook crusader. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 00:11, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
::::::::Er, no, that's really not it at all. But if someone actually wants to be a real contributor, then we'll give him or her another chance. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:15, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::I smell a hint of hostility in that, Dot commy. But yeah, I guess we don't really miss you, but rather we're lifting the grudge. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 00:19, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Woah. That was a surprise. {{User:Bluebry muffin/sig}} 00:20, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
:Yeah, it's like... Yeltensic... without all the... Yeltensic-ness. Glad to see you want to be an actual contributor again, Yelt, er, Granola. I always thought you were a cool guy. Now we just have to figure out what to do with Dr. Who... {{User:Has Matt?/sig}} 00:36, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
::Feel free to still call me Yelt or Yelty or Yeltensic. In fact, I'd rather be called that. (if I had my way I'd go back to using the Yeltensic account, but I'm not allowed to). {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:40, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry I called you guys douchebags! {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:40, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
:Dot com really hit the nail on the head, huh? It seems that all is completely forgiven. Now that Yelt has taken the time to think abou this, it's a whole lot better. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 00:45, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

== To you, ==

Don't go [http://hrwooky.wikicities.com/ here]. They'll block you. --{{User:The thing/sig}} 00:03, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
:The thing, I meant that before he apologized in his email to me. Whatev, if the wiki accepts him, we should too. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 00:08, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

== Redirect ==
You don't seem to understand something: ''We are erasing all of evidence that you are Yeltensic''. We are saving you the embarassment of tyour history here. Please don't associate with him/you. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 00:25, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
:Seriosly, please be quiet. Leave the Human Resources job to the sysops. Thanks. —[[User:BazookaJoe|BazookaJoe]] 00:31, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
::I see that you mean well, Seriously, but I want it know that I'm Yelt, because I want it known that I'm the same person as Yeltensic42 from Wikipedia, and Yeltensic on several other sites. {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:35, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
:::Yeah, I like, cry when large amounts of information is delorted for good. STUFF is different, though. {{User:Bluebry muffin/sig}} 00:36, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
::::Uh....— {{User: Seriously/sig}} 00:38, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
:::::I don't have a problem! I have multiple ones. {{User:Bluebry muffin/sig}} 02:14, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

== Signature II: ''Son of "Signature"'' ==
Pardon the cool movie intro I stole from Abdiviklas. Anyway, I changed my sig to teal. That way people can tell our sig apart better. Just a heads up. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 21:20, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
:Well now it's kind of like I forced you out of your sig, but thanks, that's prolly a good idea. As you can see, the comster also made me change my sig so that it doesn't say,"I'm Yelt." {{User:Granola/sig}} 05:24, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
::Yeah, I like it better when it's teal anyway. But feel free to copy that too. And Dot com's right, I think he just wants you to turn over a new leaf. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 02:53, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
:::He ''did'' say that in a month or so, though, if I stay out of trouble, I might be allowed to use my original account again instead of this one. Keeping my fingers crossed. {{User:Granola/sig}} 06:57, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

==From sig talkpage==

You can't be Yeltensic! He's already a user this is called trolling. --{{User:The thing/sig}} 23:57, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

:I'm the same person as Yeltensic, I guess you missed all the excitement earlier. {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:00, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

::Shouldn't you be blocked then? --{{User:The thing/sig}} 00:00, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

:::No, they're letting me stay, but only with this account, not the old one. {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:02, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

::::Don't go [http://hrwooky.wikicities.com/ here]. They'll block you. --{{User:The thing/sig}} 00:03, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

== I'm amazed. ==
I never thought that someone would make a cool people list funnier than mine. That is truly hilarious. You, good sir, are amazing. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 04:31, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
:Thank you...but make no mistake about it, your list is hilarious. Plus I got the idea from you. {{User:Granola/sig}} 04:39, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

==Signature III: ''The Revenge''==

Hey Granola. I've noticed your signature is significantly longer than the current wiki [[HRWiki:Signature|signature standards]]. Below is your current signature, with the blue box being the maximum length allowed. Obviously keeping "With crap" in your signature pushes it significantly over the maximum. I'm sure you can come up with a way to shrink it back within the limits. Thanks alot, {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 00:41, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

{{User:Granola/sig}} 
[[Image:sigbox.png]]

:It just barely fits now. {{User:Granola/sig}} 08:13, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

:It seems like you should be able to do that, doesn't it? Sorry. No dice. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 23:49, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

::I'm sorry, I don't quite get what you mean.... {{User:Granola/sig}} 23:51, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Looks like you're trying to get a sig from the test page rather from the sig page. I quoted Peasant's Quest. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 23:54, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

:Yeah, that's what I did...you can do it, all I had to do was set my sig in my preferences as the test page instead of my sig page. I then signed the page, to see if it would create some sort of endless tunnel effect. {{User:Granola/sig}} 23:57, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
::Dude, I think you broke the Internet. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 00:12, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
:::Did it really cause any kind of damage to this site? If if does do anything harmful, I'll stop... {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:14, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
::::We,, not damage, but IDC might not want you calling up his page... {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 00:22, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
:::::Yeah, perhaps not...that was only temporary though. {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:25, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
::::::Was pretty cool though. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 00:26, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
::::::Thanks. {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:27, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

==Test==

{{Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous}}

==Welcome==

Thank you! How did you type all of that so quicly though?! -I'maCluelessNewbie

:Your welcome. It was a template; I just copied and pasted it. I ''wish'' I could type that fast. BTW, please remember to type four tildes (these things: ~) after your messages, to produce your sig and the time/date. {{User:Granola/sig}} 17:14, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

== I'maCluelessNewbie ==

Um... Is there some reason you created—and then welcomed—"User:I'maCluelessNewbie"? — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 17:14, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

:Heh..I was afraid you might be online, and would notice that. No, there's no reason, I was just bored. I shoulda done that at my other house, so I could use different IPs on two computers. (Or, rather, I shoulda just been doing my schoolwork....) {{User:Granola/sig}} 17:16, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

::Bored or not, please don't do that, wherever you happen to find yourself. At the very least, it creates clutter in the database and more things for the rest of us to keep track of; and on the other end of the spectrum, it could appear that you are trying to create sockpuppets. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 17:20, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

:::OK, I won't do that. Sorry. You can go ahead and delete the account if you want. I wasn't going to use it for any vandalism. {{User:Granola/sig}} 17:22, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

::::I didn't think you were; I just meant that it could appear that way to others. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 17:24, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

:::::Yeah, I can see how it might appear that way...I guess I don't exactly have the best record, huh? {{User:Granola/sig}} 17:26, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

==The Saga of Yelt==

I read it :) and don't worry about copying my idea, that got bumped from my list of pages a few days ago. See ya around. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 04:27, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

:Of course, you were ''part'' of the saga, so you already knew all of it...did you run and look at the source code? Tsk tsk. :) {{User:Granola/sig}} 04:29, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

== I don't take requests! ==
Yeah I do. Anyway, here it is:
{{Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous}}

Just wondering, though: what are you planning to do with it? — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 02:31, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I meant my talkpage on Wikipedia. {{User:Granola/sig}} 02:32, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

==Sandbox==

Hey Granola, I've noticed you've been bumming around in the Sandbox alot recently. Might I suggest [http://www.editthis.info/add_wiki.php creating your own wiki]? Many users, such as [[User:The thing|The thing]] have done this, including [http://www.editthis.info/thunderbird/index.php/Main_Page myself]. It's a great place to just edit and test whatever the heck you want. Let me know if you make one, and I'll come and visit. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 04:37, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

:Heh, I guess everyone noticed that. Funny you mention that, I put in a request at Wikicities the other day to found a [[Wikipedia:Talking Heads|Talking Heads]] wiki. I guess that wouldn't be exactly my own wiki, but it would be sorta like that. (I'm not sure why I did that though, I need to be spending ''less'' time on the Internet, it's cutting into school..hmm that reminds me, I should have gone to bed 3 hours ago, it's a school night..ah well.) I guess I could mess around on the Heads wiki until lots of people join, then start a sandbox yeltensic wiki, even if that would be (I'm starting to lose count) 8 sites I'm obligated to (10 if you count wikis on Wikicities seperately). But anyway, that's a good idea, thanks. Recent changes patrollers will prolly make that an official holiday. :) {{User:Granola/sig}} 08:18, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

== For the record... ==
It was entirely my fault when I got blocked, and it was entirely justified. Look back through the whole story and you'll realize how. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 00:46, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:I remember it (it happened literally right before I joined as Yeltensic, and I looked through all the edit histories involved, and as it happened, it had a not insignificant amount to do with why I started vandalizing), and I don't think it was your fault at all. {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:49, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Granola, you really have some nerve. I am astounded by just how much you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. By the way, have you made any [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&offset=0&limit=100&target=Granola&namespace=0 main namespace] contributions lately? No? Not in over two months? Then stop giving us advice about how to run this wiki, because we really don't care what you think. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 00:51, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:I'm very sorry that I disagree with Darth and Seriously's blocks. {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:54, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
::Nice userbox there. </sarcasm> Yeah, I really ''can'' see you have some nerve. You grudge the admins at any chance you get. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 00:59, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

::::I hadn't made any edits lately (because A)I've been spending less time on the Internet, having somewhat more of a life now and B)I've been spending more of my Internet time on IMDB and MySpace), and I came back to find this going on.. {{User:Granola/sig}} 01:02, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
::::Actually, notice how several of them are on my Cool People list.. {{User:Granola/sig}} 01:02, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::Well, you sure don't treat them like cool people. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 01:04, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::Really Granola, The 10-year old does not tell how the parent should drive. {{User:Dacheatbot/sig}} 01:05, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

::::::I still think they're cool, I just happen to disagree with them here, and I think it's irritating that they're evidently unable to handle criticism. {{User:Granola/sig}} 01:15, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::::To the anon who removed Seriously and Dacheatbot's comments: don't do that. Everyone's comments are welcome on my talkpage. {{User:Granola/sig}} 01:15, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
::::::::They can handle critisism. They are good people. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 01:16, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::They ''are'' good people, and generally do a good job..but like everyone, they make mistakes sometimes, and some of them don't seem to be very good at handling criticism; they're probably used to going unquestioned because they normally do a goob job. {{User:Granola/sig}} 01:19, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Sheesh. I refer you to my comments above. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:20, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:Which ones? {{User:Granola/sig}} 01:23, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
::Really? My last comments. The only ones in this thread. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 01:26, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

:::I wasn't sure whether you were also including the ones further up, perhaps the ones that had to do with my return. Anyway. If you're going to essentially prove my point, guess what, Dot com? Maybe, just maybe, I don't care what ''you'' think anymore. {{User:Granola/sig}} 01:29, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

::::Well, that's fine with us. Frankly, we don't care what you think, and if you want to neglect his opinions, then that's okay. But little do you know that you're the wrong one here. Being hostile will not help anything. You are ''so below'' him, it's not even funny. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 03:20, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

:::::Well, that'll teach me not to ever defend you again. My apologies. {{User:Granola/sig}} 03:58, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

haha loks lik yelnetsic got himslef in trobl ha ha wll neway im on u guyz sid yetlensic SUCKS!!!! -Droifc

:Yeltensic is not a ten-year-old, for your information. He is one of Wikipedia's most popular editors and he almost got elected to be a wiki admin. So you'd all best watch your mouth; after all, you ''do'' want him to be a merciful admin down at Wikipedia, now don't you? LOL. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}

::Look, guys, from [[HRWiki:Administrators]]....

"''Sysops are not imbued with any special authority'', and are equal to everyone else in terms of editorial responsibility. Some consider the terms "Sysop" and "Administrator" to be misnomers, as they just indicate users who have had performance- and security-based restrictions on several features lifted because they seemed like trustworthy folks. ''Sysops should not have power over other users other than applying decisions made by all users''."

..so, Seriously was blocked for disobeying admins, not actually disobeying the policies of the community...hey, wait a minute! Something doesn't add up here... {{User:Granola/sig}} 17:34, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

User:Darth Katana X

Granola — Sat, 20 May 2006 17:20:00 GMT

Granola: /* Vandalize this userpage! */

[[Image:DarthDrawing.jpg|thumb|A picture by [[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]] from back in the day.]]
== Vandalize this userpage! ==

I love to drink vomit and eat whatsit! LOL! I'm obsessed with Plan 9 From Outer Space! And, of course, I hates Baggins!

Talk:If I Ran the Camera

Granola — Sat, 20 May 2006 17:11:34 GMT

Granola: /* Privacy */

'''''Copied from [[Talk:Secret Pages]].'''''

I was just poking around the Wayback Machine and I found [http://web.archive.org/web/20021112210701/homestarrunner.com/ifiranthecamera this]. It doesn't seem to be on the current site and my computer is weird about some of the wayback archives. Can anybody get it to work? --'''[[user:mibluvr13|mibluvr13]][[User talk:mibluvr13|dígame]]''' 15:42, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:No good, the wayback machine never stored the swf. <tt>[[User:Homestar Coder|Aurora the Homestar Coder]]</tt> 15:14, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

::Aw man! I guess we'll never know what it was... --'''[[user:mibluvr13|mibluvr13]][[User talk:mibluvr13|dígame]]''' 15:42, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

If we ignore the stuff that the Wayback Machine added to the source, we get this: (Yes, I know we're not supposed to use the <nowiki><pre></nowiki> tag anymore, but it works better for page sources): 
<pre><HEAD>
<BASE HREF="http://homestarrunner.com/ifiranthecamera">

<TITLE>If I Ran the Camera</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgcolor="#000000">


<center><OBJECT classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000"
codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=5,0,0,0"
WIDTH=550 HEIGHT=400>
<PARAM NAME=movie VALUE="ifiranthecamera.swf"> <PARAM NAME=quality VALUE=high> <PARAM NAME=bgcolor VALUE=#FFFFFF> <EMBED src="ifiranthecamera.swf" quality=high bgcolor=#FFFFFF WIDTH=550 HEIGHT=400 TYPE="application/x-shockwave-flash" PLUGINSPAGE="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"></EMBED>
</OBJECT></center>
</BODY>

<script language="JavaScript">

</script></pre>

Very long, but from what I can guess, it appears to be a kids' poem. Note the use of "Grandpa Chapman" throughout. Unless she's the [[Little Girl]], I have no idea who "Astrid Renee" is. --{{User:Venusy/Sig}}, 11:21, 25 June 2005 (BST)

Here's a quick solution to your If I ran the camera questions which I am also dying to know about: Email TBC and ask about it. --[[User:Darklinkskywalker|Darklinkskywalker]] 23:10, 13 Jul 2005 (UTC)

E-mail sent, awaiting reply... --{{User:Darklinkskywalker/DLSsignature}}

:She is the daughter of The Brothers Chaps' sister and brother-in-law. I don't know if it has already been resolved or figured out, but I wish to note this. — {{User:Lapper/sig}} 15:00, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

== Research ==

I know it's not much, but I found two forum posts that referenced the toon: [http://com1.runboard.com/bhomestarfreaks.fhomestardiscussion.t85] and [http://www.burninghorizon.com/hsrforum/index.php?PHPSESSID=e09327f86ed942bb82bfde8b07130b7a&topic=799.msg11775#msg11775]. Also, I wasn't sure how obvious this was, but the Internet Archive made the copy of the source on Nov. 12, 2002. That might help in further research attempts.[[User:Tom|<nowiki></nowiki>]] -- [[User:Tom|Tom]] 23:45, 28 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== Flash File! ==

Dwedit found the Flash file! (See external links) - {{User:Kookykman/sig}}

Yeah, I had that on my computer ever since I noticed that the WS_FTP.LOG file was wide open, so I downloaded every file from the site at that time. How I found the WF_FTP.LOG file? I was looking in /menuswfs, and got a directory listing, and there was a nice big conspicuous WS_FTP.LOG file sitting in that folder. I posted the taryngame.swf link onto fark.com, then blabbed about the ftp log on some other message board. Someone else also might have found it at the same time, since I heard about it on fark.com comments as well. So I saw that this page said "the swf file is lost to the ages", laughed, then uploaded the file on my comcast webspace. Just contributing my share... TBC, please don't sue me.--[[User:Dwedit|Dwedit]] 05:18, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Erm... sorry, but I can't exactly find the link to the flash file. Where is it?

[[User:spywaremagnet|spywaremagnet]] 9:28 AM, November 30 2005

== Fun Fact ==
The fun fact you added isn't really needed, as it's mentioned in the description. - {{User:Joshua/sig}}

:Whoops! Sorry about that - [[User:Volbeat A The Cheat|Volbeat A The Cheat]] 08:44, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

== Grandpa ==

Now that we have the Flash file, we can confirm it ''is'' the Brothers Chaps' father. If you look when "young Astrid Renee" has a stack of papers, the top one reads "Screenplay by Don Chapman". That proves it, don't it? --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]

If this is true (which I believe, if we know Don is their father) then that means that-- wait. Do the two Chapmans have any siblings? Mike and Matt? They have to, because of the [[Little Girl]], because that would prove that the little girl is the girl here. --{{User:Salty/sig}} 03:28, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
:[[The Brothers Chaps#Family]] says they have three other siblings. Until we know that two of them ''don't'' have daughters, that means there's no way to know for sure it ''is'' her. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 04:04, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
::My point, though, stands that we ''do'' know who the Grandpa is: [[Don and Harriet Chapman|Don Chapman]]. I just don't know where to put it in the article. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
:::And I like how it looks now. Nice way of putting it. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
::::Now with "Other Little Girl", it's opened a whole 'nother confuzzery. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 22:53, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
:::::Perhaps the Brothers Chaps saw we found this and added the new Little Girl, just to confuse us. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
:::::I bet at least two of their 3 siblings have daughters. My theory: One sibling had the first little girl, the blond one who is most likely Astrid Renee. Another sibling had the Other Little Girl, who is only in the new Puppet toon. Either of them couldd be Astrid, though. --{{User:Salty/sig}} 03:28, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
:::::I tend to think that the Other Little Girl is a friend's daughter, since she lacks the [[Family Resemblence]] to the Chapos that Little Girl has, but of course, Other Little Girl could still be related. Count me as a vote towards Little Girl as Astrid. —{{User:Mibluvr13/sig}} 03:31, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
::::::You know what guys? After further reflection, I'm flip flopping my interest in checking this out. TBC are somewhat protective of information about themselves, choosing to appear only in the DVDs, and are obviously not going out of their way to make information on their extended family easily accessible. I'd like to respect that; the fact that it involves minors brings even more privacy issues into it. We can speculate privately, but I think the less talk the better. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 03:57, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

== Privacy ==

From the wiki article:
"It was removed from the site sometime in 2003, after the Brothers Chaps realized that fans had unearthed the secret page."

My interpretation of this is that this movie was never meant for the public eye, and that they didn't really want us to see it... Isn't it extremely rude and not-real-fan-like to mirror it here? {{unsigned|193.217.163.116|07:59, 6 April 2006 (UTC)}}

:That line seems very speculative, but [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=If_I_Ran_the_Camera&diff=176191&oldid=171542 when it was added] [[User:Mibluvr13|Mibluvr13]] mentioned doing some research. I'll ask where she got her info on her user talk page. -- [[User:Tom|Tom]] 10:38, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

::The only sources I had were a few forum posts, so obviously, they're not very authoritative. It was last October, so I don't know exactly where I got that, but I did manage to find a post on [http://com1.runboard.com/bhomestarfreaks.fhomestardiscussion.t85 this page] that said "It was about some baby and Strong Dad but The Chaps took it down when they found out people were looking through the homestarrunner.com files." I might have gotten it from that. Take that part off if you want, but I've always found If I Ran the Camera to be a touchy subject to begin with. —{{User:Mibluvr13/sig}} 00:06, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

:::This wasn't meant for our eyes, this is a total invasion of their privacy. Let's have some courtesy and take this down, especially after their dad died. Don't be rabid, zealous Homestar freaks bent on disecting the entire site. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}

::::Dartha Katana X, thank you for once again for taking what we do here and turning it into a demeaning one sentence statement. I've warned you before about putting us down every chance that you get, and this time you've taken it too far by bringing such a sensitive topic into it. I'm restricting your editing privileges for one month, and I hope you take that time to grow up a little. I know full well that you take pride in getting attention for talking down to us and being as abrasive as possible. Here's a suggestion: be a nicer guy and people will give you more than attention—they'll give you respect. -- [[User:Tom|Tom]] 01:38, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

:::::How mature. That just proves that you're only intent on getting your hands on any information you can, even if it means potentially offending The Brothers Chaps, and then you accuse '''me''' of being the one bringing up a "sensitive topic." So, Tom, which matters more to you, your site or two real people? Whoops, I guess you're just gonna ban me for another month (or perhaps forever) because I asked you a question that you don't want to answer. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}

::::::Hey there Darth Katana X! Good to see you back. See, the thing is, the two choices you present me aren't based on fact, and they really boil down to being a [[Wikipedia:False dilemma|false dilemma]] (with a little [[Wikipedia:Poisoning the well|poisoning of the well]] thrown in there at the end). We do not know that The Brothers Chaps would be offended by this article. That's your assumption. We do not speculate about the opinions of The Brothers Chaps. You also make some pretty serious assumptions about my motives too. If we were contacted by The Brothers Chaps and asked to take down this article, we would without any hesitation. We aren't heartless, and you shouldn't assume that we are.
::::::This site is not mine, not any more than it is yours. This is a community driven site where we all work together. And that community has deemed that the article is worth keeping, and unless we receive word from The Brothers Chaps that they would like us to remove it, it stays.
::::::I'd also like to take this opportunity to remind you that you are walking a very fine line, and I advise you to be cautious, because any deviation by you from our policies and guidelines will result in serious repercussions.
::::::Take care, and welcome back. -- [[User:Tom|Tom]] 06:56, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I agree with Tom. We shouldn't speculate regarding how they feel, in fact most of what they have said about the Wiki thusfar has been very positive. Unless they say something in the future about this page, there is no reason to take it down based on speculation. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 06:58, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

::::::::Wow, I'm being welcomed back, and my head hasn't been freshly chewed off? Cool. All right, but we should still ''think'' about taking it down. It isn't really worth having up anyway since it doesn't benefit the site. Too bad I have male PMS. Because now I feel like a (insert your favorite expletive here), but I also feel like being a more compassionate person. Weird. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
:::::::::Welcome back. You shouldn't be surprised. A cursory look over the recent edits shows a lot of positive input here, and that yields positive interactions. As far as this page goes, it seems we are ''thinking'' about its status, and we shall continue to do so. Be prepared for concensus to differ from your opinion, as so often happens to me. I've had male PMS for about 6 months now, and yes it can be frustrating to see things go in a direction we disagree with, but the trick is to say your piece like a man and take the result like a man. (Lady-types, you can instead take it like a "woman".) Avoid the temptation to assume "victory" or "defeat" when your suggestions aren't accepted: if the concensus of the wiki is served, it is a victory. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 09:20, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::::Welcome back, Darth Katana X. It's good to have a man with a good sense of humor stay on the wiki, even after having to neglect it for a month. Yeah, I totally agree with Tom. Yes, it would seem that TBC wouldn't like us seeing this, but they ''do'' keep a close eye on us. After all, we document every single thing they ever made in Homestar Runner. :P I can safely say they know full well we're doing this, and if they haven't requested anything yet, then we should keep it. You can't assume their feelings, even if their feelings seem obvious to you. Also, try not to assume the worst from everything; I've seen far-too-many quotes that sound depressing and almost unwanting of the people around you. For example: <tt>"Wow, I'm being welcomed back, and my head hasn't been freshly chewed off?"</tt> <tt>"Whoops, I guess you're just gonna ban me for another month (or perhaps forever) because I asked you a question that you don't want to answer."</tt> The people around you are ''nice''—and I don't think Tom, or anyone else, really hates you—people are blocked everyday, but the important thing is to stay mature and respectful toward the people who blocked you. They always have a good reason for what they do. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 11:15, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::::I think it's probably OK to keep this page, but a month seems a bit long to be blocked for disagreeing. {{User:Granola/sig}} 13:18, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Except that wasn't the only reason. Given that the block is up—and that this talk page is for discussing the article, not a user—I think it would be best just to move on already. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 13:27, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, there were similar things like this before, yes, but still. I'm not saying that the vandalism I did in the past was right, but I will say that it was largely because of this sort of thing. {{User:Granola/sig}} 13:35, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

:I hope you're not suggesting that that's supposed to excuse it. Agressive, systematic, sustained vandalism is abominable in any context. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 13:45, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::But there's no reason to encourage it, and that's exactly what this sort of thing does. {{User:Granola/sig}} 14:03, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::''Please.'' People are responsible for their own actions. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 14:09, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::::Of course they are, but that doesn't mean the admins should encourage vandalism. Surely it's better for everyone if fewer users ''want'' to vandalize. {{User:Granola/sig}} 14:13, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::Neither I nor any other admin have ever encouraged anyone to vandalize. We do our best to present calm, logical discussions. How people respond to that is completely up to them. If someone is not mature enough to find an alternate way to get their point across and thus ''resorts'' to vandalism, then that's their problem, not ours. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 14:21, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::::::I'm sure none of the admins have ever deliberately encouraged vandalism, and you're right, they/you are good about presenting calm, logical discussions, but such a draconian measure as a month-long block for what Darth did is kinda asking for it. {{User:Granola/sig}} 14:25, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::::It doesn't seem like it was very long to me, especially given that the attitude of the blocked user had not changed at the outset of this morning's discussion. A month might seem like a long time in Internet time, but it's a lot less than a year, or indefinite. No matter what the length of the block, we will not be swayed by the threat of vandalism, no matter how much one thinks we are "asking for it". — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 14:34, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::::::::His attitude? That's kind of my point. He was blocked for a month because he disagreed with the admins and didn't keep his opinion to himself. {{User:Granola/sig}} 14:37, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::Please understand, he was not blocked for disagreeing with ''admins'' per se. It's true that there were admins in the group of ''users'' he disagreed with, but he was blocked for being unwilling to help reach consensus and then follow it once it was established. No one is ever required to keep an opinion quiet, even if it goes against the majority. What we won't tolerate, however, is someone belligerently assuming that their dissenting opinion is and can be the only correct one and then going on to state their opinion in as many offensive ways as possible. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 14:46, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, OK, users that included admins. It prolly didn't help that the group of said users included admins. Anyway, the only even slightly offensive thing in his first post here was the comment about zealous Homestar freaks, which was pretty minor indeed. A reprimand, perhaps, but a block, let alone a ''month''-long block? {{User:Granola/sig}} 14:52, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:Nobody ever said that he was blocked for this talk page alone. In fact, we've said the exact opposite. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 14:58, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::Yes, I know there were some other times. Still... {{User:Granola/sig}} 15:04, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::It wasn't just the post above, (in which the most offensive part was bringing up Don Chapman's passing and using it as a lever, not the "rabid, zealous Homestar freaks" comment), and also the long campaign he went on at [[Talk:Visor Robot]], and a couple of other places too. The post above was merely the last straw, as far as the admin team were concerned. {{User:Phlip/sig}} 15:05, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::::You mean the discussion in which the consensus weighed in Darth's favor (even some admins agreed with him) and he got frustrated when nothing happened, because a few higher-ranking admins disagreed with the consensus? {{User:Granola/sig}} 15:22, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::No, we mean the discussion where he was combative, where he uploaded an image accusing us of routinely making up information and calling it canon, and where he used a term for that action that was found offensive by other users. This is not to mention the near-continuous putting down of the wiki, his involvement with it, and its admins. This goes to show that it really doesn't matter whether or not someone is correct if the way they present their ideas causes others not to listen. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 15:39, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

He could have been more polite there, yes, but he was basically right. I should think the community should be able to decide on substance over style (not to mention that the consenus was in his favor anyway, not that it mattered). That ties in with my earlier point, actually; if admins are going to use their adminship to override consensus (especially when common sense is against them), they shouldn't be very surprised when a non-admin gets combative. {{User:Granola/sig}} 15:47, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:But the consensus ''wasn't'' in his favour. He was insistant on moving [[Visor Robot]] to [[Fhqwhgads Robot]], and very few other people where. Attempts at compromise that left it at [[Visor Robot]] (like my adding "Though he has never been officially named..." to the article, which, admittedly, should have been there already) fell on deaf ears. The idea of a merge to [[Robots]] was considered a good idea by some and a bad idea by others – that's ''not'' a consensus in either direction – a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] is where nearly everyone agrees, or is at least happy to live with it (as opposed to a majority in which the people who want it simply outweigh the people that don't). And "common sense" is subjective – Darth thinks it's common sense for the page to use the only name mentioned on the site, I think it's common sense for the page to not use a name for a character that predates the name (Visor Robot was introduced before [[i love you]]). Both of these opinions stem from "common sense", so you can't use it as an objective standpoint. {{User:Phlip/sig}} 16:06, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::Has content been removed from the talkpage? When I read that discussion, I saw that, perhaps not a consensus, but a substantial majority, agreed with Darth. {{User:Granola/sig}} 16:12, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::Nothing's been removed... [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=Talk%3AVisor_Robot&diff=0&oldid=305990 this] is a diff of all edits after Darth's last on that page. What you might be remembering as agreement was the fact that everyone agreed that "Visor Robot" was not the character's name. What was disagreed about was whether this was a problem that needed to be fixed. {{User:Phlip/sig}} 16:22, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::::I'm talking about the agreement that Visor Robot shouldn't be the name of the article. {{User:Granola/sig}} 16:27, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::As Phlip has pointed out, that issue is still under discussion. It's really beside the point here, though, because regardless of one's stand on any particular issue and the underlying validity of that stand, one must take into account that the method of one's presentation can have consequences. That's just the way the world works, and this wiki is no exception in that regard. To draw an analogy, at the end of ''Liar Liar'', Jim Carrey's character was correct in saying that his client had won on an unimportant technicality and that it was therefore likely a miscarriage of justice, but he was nevertheless held in contempt for the way he yelled it at the judge. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 16:38, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

True, but sometimes you have to yell to get your point across. To draw an analogy, look at any protest/demonstration. {{User:Granola/sig}} 17:13, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

:Whatever, dude. Violent or unruly demonstrations are a waste of time. You'll either be ignored or doused with pepper spray. People might even take the opposite view from you just as a reaction. On the other hand, peaceful, uplifting demonstrations often have lasting, positive impacts. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 17:24, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::I wasn't talking about ''violent'' demonstrations, but whatever. This has become a waste of our time. {{User:Granola/sig}} 17:39, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

:::Thank you for accusing me of "using Don Chapman's passing as a lever," Phlip. Shows how much ''you'' know. That leaves a particularly bad taste in my mouth because there are some people out there who actually ''would'' do something like that (I won't go into any further detail). {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}

::::Avtually, that whole comment shows how much ''you'' know. phlip (I prefer using his name with a lowercase p, as that's what is in his sig) was completely right. Maybe you didn't mean to, but yes, you definitely used it as a lever. Now can we please drop this discussion? If you insist on continuing it, please move this to your talk page. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 00:24, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

::::Do I smell a hint of hypocrisy from the admins here? It's OK for the admins to accuse Darth of taking advantage of Don Chapman's death, but it's terrible for him to say that this article is an invasion of the Chaps' privacy? Oh, and I think I already mentioned that I disagree with Darth (if they didn't want anyone to see it, why did they stick it on HR.com in the first place?), so if his comments are such horrible blanket insults of everyone with a different opinion, why do I not feel insulted? Oh, right, it's because they ''aren't''. Silly me! {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:33, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::There's a difference between shamelessly using it as a lever and just pointing out that it such circumstances might make them more likely to dislike an invasion of their privacy (although, as I said, I don't really have a problem with this article). {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:33, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::::Yeah, Tom's apostles don't like what I have to say. But they have it coming because they know I'm right. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
::::::::Please, Granola. I'ma repeat this one more time: '''Darth Katana X was blocked for more than just this'''. So please, just stop talking in this discussion. Now. It's over, we've said all we've needed to say. You're just repeating yourself. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 00:36, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::Jesus Christ....man, you're starting to make me laugh because of your arrogance. Please, stop before I spit my water out. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 00:40, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::Sorry, I just hate seeing draconian-ally (not a word, but oh well) long blocks for such minor things. Even worse was when you were blocked for a week for something that was Ciberdude's fault. I could go on and on, but I won't.. {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:43, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::::I agree that Darth's comments here have gotten increasingly arrogant. But notice how that was ''after'' he had already been unfairly blocked etc. {{User:Granola/sig}} 00:43, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::::How sad. I have seen political elections with more respect for each other. "Tom's apostles"? "They know I am right"? Your logic is quite impressive. Darth Katana X, this is your final warning. If you insult the admins, or any other user for that matter, you will be banned again. Now, I doubt that some of you remember what this entire section is about. I am fine with the transcript here, but I wouldn't mind seeing the link go. {{User:Rogue Leader/sig}} 00:45, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

:So, you're the next member of the anti-Darth and Yeltensic team. Well, congratulations, you fit right in. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}

User talk:Droifc

Granola — Sat, 20 May 2006 04:58:34 GMT

User:Granola

Talk:If I Ran the Camera

Granola — Fri, 19 May 2006 16:12:28 GMT

Granola: /* Privacy */

'''''Copied from [[Talk:Secret Pages]].'''''

I was just poking around the Wayback Machine and I found [http://web.archive.org/web/20021112210701/homestarrunner.com/ifiranthecamera this]. It doesn't seem to be on the current site and my computer is weird about some of the wayback archives. Can anybody get it to work? --'''[[user:mibluvr13|mibluvr13]][[User talk:mibluvr13|dígame]]''' 15:42, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:No good, the wayback machine never stored the swf. <tt>[[User:Homestar Coder|Aurora the Homestar Coder]]</tt> 15:14, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

::Aw man! I guess we'll never know what it was... --'''[[user:mibluvr13|mibluvr13]][[User talk:mibluvr13|dígame]]''' 15:42, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

If we ignore the stuff that the Wayback Machine added to the source, we get this: (Yes, I know we're not supposed to use the <nowiki><pre></nowiki> tag anymore, but it works better for page sources): 
<pre><HEAD>
<BASE HREF="http://homestarrunner.com/ifiranthecamera">

<TITLE>If I Ran the Camera</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgcolor="#000000">


<center><OBJECT classid="clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000"
codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=5,0,0,0"
WIDTH=550 HEIGHT=400>
<PARAM NAME=movie VALUE="ifiranthecamera.swf"> <PARAM NAME=quality VALUE=high> <PARAM NAME=bgcolor VALUE=#FFFFFF> <EMBED src="ifiranthecamera.swf" quality=high bgcolor=#FFFFFF WIDTH=550 HEIGHT=400 TYPE="application/x-shockwave-flash" PLUGINSPAGE="http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/index.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash"></EMBED>
</OBJECT></center>
</BODY>

<script language="JavaScript">

</script></pre>

Very long, but from what I can guess, it appears to be a kids' poem. Note the use of "Grandpa Chapman" throughout. Unless she's the [[Little Girl]], I have no idea who "Astrid Renee" is. --{{User:Venusy/Sig}}, 11:21, 25 June 2005 (BST)

Here's a quick solution to your If I ran the camera questions which I am also dying to know about: Email TBC and ask about it. --[[User:Darklinkskywalker|Darklinkskywalker]] 23:10, 13 Jul 2005 (UTC)

E-mail sent, awaiting reply... --{{User:Darklinkskywalker/DLSsignature}}

:She is the daughter of The Brothers Chaps' sister and brother-in-law. I don't know if it has already been resolved or figured out, but I wish to note this. — {{User:Lapper/sig}} 15:00, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

== Research ==

I know it's not much, but I found two forum posts that referenced the toon: [http://com1.runboard.com/bhomestarfreaks.fhomestardiscussion.t85] and [http://www.burninghorizon.com/hsrforum/index.php?PHPSESSID=e09327f86ed942bb82bfde8b07130b7a&topic=799.msg11775#msg11775]. Also, I wasn't sure how obvious this was, but the Internet Archive made the copy of the source on Nov. 12, 2002. That might help in further research attempts.[[User:Tom|<nowiki></nowiki>]] -- [[User:Tom|Tom]] 23:45, 28 Sep 2005 (UTC)

== Flash File! ==

Dwedit found the Flash file! (See external links) - {{User:Kookykman/sig}}

Yeah, I had that on my computer ever since I noticed that the WS_FTP.LOG file was wide open, so I downloaded every file from the site at that time. How I found the WF_FTP.LOG file? I was looking in /menuswfs, and got a directory listing, and there was a nice big conspicuous WS_FTP.LOG file sitting in that folder. I posted the taryngame.swf link onto fark.com, then blabbed about the ftp log on some other message board. Someone else also might have found it at the same time, since I heard about it on fark.com comments as well. So I saw that this page said "the swf file is lost to the ages", laughed, then uploaded the file on my comcast webspace. Just contributing my share... TBC, please don't sue me.--[[User:Dwedit|Dwedit]] 05:18, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Erm... sorry, but I can't exactly find the link to the flash file. Where is it?

[[User:spywaremagnet|spywaremagnet]] 9:28 AM, November 30 2005

== Fun Fact ==
The fun fact you added isn't really needed, as it's mentioned in the description. - {{User:Joshua/sig}}

:Whoops! Sorry about that - [[User:Volbeat A The Cheat|Volbeat A The Cheat]] 08:44, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

== Grandpa ==

Now that we have the Flash file, we can confirm it ''is'' the Brothers Chaps' father. If you look when "young Astrid Renee" has a stack of papers, the top one reads "Screenplay by Don Chapman". That proves it, don't it? --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]

If this is true (which I believe, if we know Don is their father) then that means that-- wait. Do the two Chapmans have any siblings? Mike and Matt? They have to, because of the [[Little Girl]], because that would prove that the little girl is the girl here. --{{User:Salty/sig}} 03:28, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
:[[The Brothers Chaps#Family]] says they have three other siblings. Until we know that two of them ''don't'' have daughters, that means there's no way to know for sure it ''is'' her. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 04:04, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
::My point, though, stands that we ''do'' know who the Grandpa is: [[Don and Harriet Chapman|Don Chapman]]. I just don't know where to put it in the article. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
:::And I like how it looks now. Nice way of putting it. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
::::Now with "Other Little Girl", it's opened a whole 'nother confuzzery. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 22:53, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
:::::Perhaps the Brothers Chaps saw we found this and added the new Little Girl, just to confuse us. --[[User:DorianGray|DorianGray]]
:::::I bet at least two of their 3 siblings have daughters. My theory: One sibling had the first little girl, the blond one who is most likely Astrid Renee. Another sibling had the Other Little Girl, who is only in the new Puppet toon. Either of them couldd be Astrid, though. --{{User:Salty/sig}} 03:28, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
:::::I tend to think that the Other Little Girl is a friend's daughter, since she lacks the [[Family Resemblence]] to the Chapos that Little Girl has, but of course, Other Little Girl could still be related. Count me as a vote towards Little Girl as Astrid. —{{User:Mibluvr13/sig}} 03:31, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
::::::You know what guys? After further reflection, I'm flip flopping my interest in checking this out. TBC are somewhat protective of information about themselves, choosing to appear only in the DVDs, and are obviously not going out of their way to make information on their extended family easily accessible. I'd like to respect that; the fact that it involves minors brings even more privacy issues into it. We can speculate privately, but I think the less talk the better. —[[User:AbdiViklas|AbdiViklas]] 03:57, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

== Privacy ==

From the wiki article:
"It was removed from the site sometime in 2003, after the Brothers Chaps realized that fans had unearthed the secret page."

My interpretation of this is that this movie was never meant for the public eye, and that they didn't really want us to see it... Isn't it extremely rude and not-real-fan-like to mirror it here? {{unsigned|193.217.163.116|07:59, 6 April 2006 (UTC)}}

:That line seems very speculative, but [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php?title=If_I_Ran_the_Camera&diff=176191&oldid=171542 when it was added] [[User:Mibluvr13|Mibluvr13]] mentioned doing some research. I'll ask where she got her info on her user talk page. -- [[User:Tom|Tom]] 10:38, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

::The only sources I had were a few forum posts, so obviously, they're not very authoritative. It was last October, so I don't know exactly where I got that, but I did manage to find a post on [http://com1.runboard.com/bhomestarfreaks.fhomestardiscussion.t85 this page] that said "It was about some baby and Strong Dad but The Chaps took it down when they found out people were looking through the homestarrunner.com files." I might have gotten it from that. Take that part off if you want, but I've always found If I Ran the Camera to be a touchy subject to begin with. —{{User:Mibluvr13/sig}} 00:06, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

:::This wasn't meant for our eyes, this is a total invasion of their privacy. Let's have some courtesy and take this down, especially after their dad died. Don't be rabid, zealous Homestar freaks bent on disecting the entire site. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}

::::Dartha Katana X, thank you for once again for taking what we do here and turning it into a demeaning one sentence statement. I've warned you before about putting us down every chance that you get, and this time you've taken it too far by bringing such a sensitive topic into it. I'm restricting your editing privileges for one month, and I hope you take that time to grow up a little. I know full well that you take pride in getting attention for talking down to us and being as abrasive as possible. Here's a suggestion: be a nicer guy and people will give you more than attention—they'll give you respect. -- [[User:Tom|Tom]] 01:38, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

:::::How mature. That just proves that you're only intent on getting your hands on any information you can, even if it means potentially offending The Brothers Chaps, and then you accuse '''me''' of being the one bringing up a "sensitive topic." So, Tom, which matters more to you, your site or two real people? Whoops, I guess you're just gonna ban me for another month (or perhaps forever) because I asked you a question that you don't want to answer. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}

::::::Hey there Darth Katana X! Good to see you back. See, the thing is, the two choices you present me aren't based on fact, and they really boil down to being a [[Wikipedia:False dilemma|false dilemma]] (with a little [[Wikipedia:Poisoning the well|poisoning of the well]] thrown in there at the end). We do not know that The Brothers Chaps would be offended by this article. That's your assumption. We do not speculate about the opinions of The Brothers Chaps. You also make some pretty serious assumptions about my motives too. If we were contacted by The Brothers Chaps and asked to take down this article, we would without any hesitation. We aren't heartless, and you shouldn't assume that we are.
::::::This site is not mine, not any more than it is yours. This is a community driven site where we all work together. And that community has deemed that the article is worth keeping, and unless we receive word from The Brothers Chaps that they would like us to remove it, it stays.
::::::I'd also like to take this opportunity to remind you that you are walking a very fine line, and I advise you to be cautious, because any deviation by you from our policies and guidelines will result in serious repercussions.
::::::Take care, and welcome back. -- [[User:Tom|Tom]] 06:56, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

:::::::I agree with Tom. We shouldn't speculate regarding how they feel, in fact most of what they have said about the Wiki thusfar has been very positive. Unless they say something in the future about this page, there is no reason to take it down based on speculation. {{User:Thunderbird L17/Siggie}} 06:58, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

::::::::Wow, I'm being welcomed back, and my head hasn't been freshly chewed off? Cool. All right, but we should still ''think'' about taking it down. It isn't really worth having up anyway since it doesn't benefit the site. Too bad I have male PMS. Because now I feel like a (insert your favorite expletive here), but I also feel like being a more compassionate person. Weird. {{User:Darth Katana X/sig}}
:::::::::Welcome back. You shouldn't be surprised. A cursory look over the recent edits shows a lot of positive input here, and that yields positive interactions. As far as this page goes, it seems we are ''thinking'' about its status, and we shall continue to do so. Be prepared for concensus to differ from your opinion, as so often happens to me. I've had male PMS for about 6 months now, and yes it can be frustrating to see things go in a direction we disagree with, but the trick is to say your piece like a man and take the result like a man. (Lady-types, you can instead take it like a "woman".) Avoid the temptation to assume "victory" or "defeat" when your suggestions aren't accepted: if the concensus of the wiki is served, it is a victory. {{User:Qermaq/sig}} 09:20, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::::Welcome back, Darth Katana X. It's good to have a man with a good sense of humor stay on the wiki, even after having to neglect it for a month. Yeah, I totally agree with Tom. Yes, it would seem that TBC wouldn't like us seeing this, but they ''do'' keep a close eye on us. After all, we document every single thing they ever made in Homestar Runner. :P I can safely say they know full well we're doing this, and if they haven't requested anything yet, then we should keep it. You can't assume their feelings, even if their feelings seem obvious to you. Also, try not to assume the worst from everything; I've seen far-too-many quotes that sound depressing and almost unwanting of the people around you. For example: <tt>"Wow, I'm being welcomed back, and my head hasn't been freshly chewed off?"</tt> <tt>"Whoops, I guess you're just gonna ban me for another month (or perhaps forever) because I asked you a question that you don't want to answer."</tt> The people around you are ''nice''—and I don't think Tom, or anyone else, really hates you—people are blocked everyday, but the important thing is to stay mature and respectful toward the people who blocked you. They always have a good reason for what they do. — {{User: Seriously/sig}} 11:15, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::::I think it's probably OK to keep this page, but a month seems a bit long to be blocked for disagreeing. {{User:Granola/sig}} 13:18, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Except that wasn't the only reason. Given that the block is up—and that this talk page is for discussing the article, not a user—I think it would be best just to move on already. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 13:27, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, there were similar things like this before, yes, but still. I'm not saying that the vandalism I did in the past was right, but I will say that it was largely because of this sort of thing. {{User:Granola/sig}} 13:35, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

:I hope you're not suggesting that that's supposed to excuse it. Agressive, systematic, sustained vandalism is abominable in any context. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 13:45, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::But there's no reason to encourage it, and that's exactly what this sort of thing does. {{User:Granola/sig}} 14:03, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::''Please.'' People are responsible for their own actions. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 14:09, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::::Of course they are, but that doesn't mean the admins should encourage vandalism. Surely it's better for everyone if fewer users ''want'' to vandalize. {{User:Granola/sig}} 14:13, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::Neither I nor any other admin have ever encouraged anyone to vandalize. We do our best to present calm, logical discussions. How people respond to that is completely up to them. If someone is not mature enough to find an alternate way to get their point across and thus ''resorts'' to vandalism, then that's their problem, not ours. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 14:21, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::::::I'm sure none of the admins have ever deliberately encouraged vandalism, and you're right, they/you are good about presenting calm, logical discussions, but such a draconian measure as a month-long block for what Darth did is kinda asking for it. {{User:Granola/sig}} 14:25, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::::It doesn't seem like it was very long to me, especially given that the attitude of the blocked user had not changed at the outset of this morning's discussion. A month might seem like a long time in Internet time, but it's a lot less than a year, or indefinite. No matter what the length of the block, we will not be swayed by the threat of vandalism, no matter how much one thinks we are "asking for it". — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 14:34, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::::::::His attitude? That's kind of my point. He was blocked for a month because he disagreed with the admins and didn't keep his opinion to himself. {{User:Granola/sig}} 14:37, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::Please understand, he was not blocked for disagreeing with ''admins'' per se. It's true that there were admins in the group of ''users'' he disagreed with, but he was blocked for being unwilling to help reach consensus and then follow it once it was established. No one is ever required to keep an opinion quiet, even if it goes against the majority. What we won't tolerate, however, is someone belligerently assuming that their dissenting opinion is and can be the only correct one and then going on to state their opinion in as many offensive ways as possible. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 14:46, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, OK, users that included admins. It prolly didn't help that the group of said users included admins. Anyway, the only even slightly offensive thing in his first post here was the comment about zealous Homestar freaks, which was pretty minor indeed. A reprimand, perhaps, but a block, let alone a ''month''-long block? {{User:Granola/sig}} 14:52, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:Nobody ever said that he was blocked for this talk page alone. In fact, we've said the exact opposite. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 14:58, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::Yes, I know there were some other times. Still... {{User:Granola/sig}} 15:04, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::It wasn't just the post above, (in which the most offensive part was bringing up Don Chapman's passing and using it as a lever, not the "rabid, zealous Homestar freaks" comment), and also the long campaign he went on at [[Talk:Visor Robot]], and a couple of other places too. The post above was merely the last straw, as far as the admin team were concerned. {{User:Phlip/sig}} 15:05, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
::::You mean the discussion in which the consensus weighed in Darth's favor (even some admins agreed with him) and he got frustrated when nothing happened, because a few higher-ranking admins disagreed with the consensus? {{User:Granola/sig}} 15:22, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:::::No, we mean the discussion where he was combative, where he uploaded an image accusing us of routinely making up information and calling it canon, and where he used a term for that action that was found offensive by other users. This is not to mention the near-continuous putting down of the wiki, his involvement with it, and its admins. This goes to show that it really doesn't matter whether or not someone is correct if the way they present their ideas causes others not to listen. — [[User:It's dot com|It's dot com]] 15:39, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

He could have been more polite there, yes, but he was basically right. I should think the community should be able to decide on substance over style (not to mention that the consenus was in his favor anyway, not that it mattered). That ties in with my earlier point, actually; if admins are going to use their adminship to override consensus (especially when common sense is against them), they shouldn't be very surprised when a non-admin gets combative. {{User:Granola/sig}} 15:47, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:But the consensus ''wasn't'' in his favour. He was insistant on moving [[Visor Robot]] to [[Fhqwhgads Robot]], and very few other people where. Attempts at compromise that left it at [[Visor Robot]] (like my adding "Though he has never been officially named..." to the article, which, admittedly, should have been there already) fell on deaf ears. The idea of a merge to [[Robots]] was considered a good idea by some and a bad idea by others – that's ''not'' a consensus in either direction – a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] is where nearly everyone agrees, or is at least happy to live with it (as opposed to a majority in which the people who want it simply outweigh the people that don't). And "common sense" is subjective – Darth thinks it's common sense for the page to use the only name mentioned on the site, I think it's common sense for the page to not use a name for a character that predates the name (Visor Robot was introduced before [[i love you]]). Both of these opinions stem from "common sense", so you can't use it as an objective standpoint. {{User:Phlip/sig}} 16:06, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
:Has content been removed from the talkpage? When I read that discussion, I saw that, perhaps not a consensus, but a substantial majority, agreed with Darth. {{User:Granola/sig}} 16:12, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Talk:If I Ran the Camera

Granola — Fri, 19 May 2006 15:47:11 GMT

Granola: /* Privacy */

Talk:If I Ran the Camera

Granola — Fri, 19 May 2006 15:22:38 GMT

Granola: /* Privacy */

Talk:If I Ran the Camera

Granola — Fri, 19 May 2006 15:04:18 GMT

Granola — Fri, 19 May 2006 13:21:50 GMT

Granola: /* Cool People List */

<div class="usermessage">You have [[Special:Mytalk|new messages]].</div>

{{userboxtop}}
{{userbox|border=#00008B|mainbkgd=#F5F5F5|codebkgd=#0000CD |codecolor=#FFFFFF|code=WP|msg=This user is also on '''[[Wikipedia:User:Yeltensic42|Wikipedia]]'''.}}
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{{userbox|border=#00008B|mainbkgd=#F5F5F5|codebkgd=#0000CD |codecolor=#FFFFFF|code=Wiki|msg=This user has '''[http://www.editthis.info/dandypedia/index.php/Main_Page his own wiki]'''.}}
{{userbox|border=#FFA500|mainbkgd=#FFCE7B|codebkgd=#FFA500|codecolor=#FFFFFF|code=[[Image:qod 2 - strong bad.PNG|35px]]|msg=This user's favorite character is '''[[Strong Bad]]'''.}}
{{userbox|border=#000000|mainbkgd=#3333CD|codebkgd=#FFFFFF|codecolor=#FFFFFF|code=[[Image:homsar_shirt_logo_back.PNG|40px]]|msg=This user was '''[[User:ACupOfCoffee|raised by a cup of coffee]]'''.}}
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|}

[[User:Granola/test]]

Name: Christopher Michael Bensko

Age: 15

Location: the vicinity of Orlando, Florida

As those userboxes over there suggest, I'm the same person as [[User:Yeltensic|Yelt]]. You probably already know the whole story about that.

==Quiz Result==

<div style="text-align:center">
http://www.geocities.com/jurjyfrort/thecheat.jpg" 
 [http://www.geocities.com/jurjyfrort/homestarquiz.html Which Homestar Runner character are you?]
 this quiz was made by [mailto:jurjyfrort@yahoo.com jurjyfrort]

Which Homestar Runner character are you?
this quiz was made by mailto:jurjyfrort@yahoo.com

Huh...not what I was expecting...kinda thought it'd say Strong Sad. But I suppose people who knew me as Yelt aren't at all surprised, LOL.

I took the test a few other times and answered some questions differently (cos some of them really could have had more than one answer), and it came up as Strong Sad, Homestar and Pom Pom. I guess what this prolly means is that I'm not much like any of the characters.

==Cool People List==

— [[User:Darth Katana X|Sith Sword
Y]] ([http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/User_talk:Darth_Katana_X http://www.hrwiki.org/skins/monobook/discussionitem_icon.gif] [http://www.hrwiki.org/index.php/Special:Contributions/Darth_Katana_X http://www.hrwiki.org/skins/monobook/user.gif] [mailto:masterthedisaster88@yahoo.com http://www.hrwiki.org/skins/monobook/mail_icon.gif]) 

'''[[User:Seriously|Sensibly]]''' '''([[User talk:Seriously|talk]]''' '''•''' '''[[Special:Contributions/Seriously| stuff I did]])''' 

—[[User:ACupOfCoffee|User:AContainerOfCaffeine]][[User talk:ACupOfCoffee|@]] 

[[User:It's dot com|This is dot gov]] 

[[User:BazookaJoe|GrenadelauncherJeff]] 

'''<tt>[[User talk:Thunderbird L17|⇔]][[User:Thunderbird L17|Electrofowl]][[Special:Contributions/Thunderbird L17|⇔]]</tt>''' 

'''[[User:The thing|The noun that isn't a person or place]] [[Image:shield.png|20px]] [[User_talk:The thing|Talking is fun.]]''' 

— [[User:Has Matt?|'''''Did Matthew?''''']] [[User_talk:Has Matt?|'''(talk)''']] 

[[User:Granola#External Guestbook|With crap]], '''[[User:Granola|Fig Newton]]''' '''([[User talk:Granola|T]]''' '''•''' '''[[Special:Contributions/Granola| C]])'''

[[User:Yeltensic|My doppelgänger]] 

'''[[User:Taco Salad of My Dreams|Burrito Lettuce]] [[User talk:Taco Salad of My Dreams|of My Hallucinations]]''' 
[[User:Dr. Who|Professor Whither]] 

==External Guestbook==

I have a guestbook over on Uncyclopedia, so you can follow this link and sign it. If you don't have an account there, or use a different name there, please mention your HRWiki name when you sign, so that I know who it was. (not much point in having a guestbook otherwise, right?)

[http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/User:Yeltensic#Guestbook external guestbook]

Granola — Mon, 15 May 2006 18:40:33 GMT

Granola: /* Drofic */

User talk:Lapper

Granola — Mon, 15 May 2006 17:08:45 GMT

Granola: /* Drofic */