Homestar Runner Wiki Forum

A companion to the Homestar Runner Wiki
It is currently Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:11 pm

All times are UTC




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 70 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Should we translate our National Anthem into Spanish?
Yes 38%  38%  [ 11 ]
No 48%  48%  [ 14 ]
Undecided 14%  14%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 29
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 9:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 890
Location: Royse City, TX
Fodder:

A 1919 publication of the National Anthem in Spanish at the Library of Congress

An NPR story about a number of different versions of the National Anthem.

Quote:
The State Department Web site posts four Spanish versions and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice says she's heard rap, country and classical versions. On CBS' Face the Nation (PDF transcript), she says the "individualization of the American national anthem is quite under way."


The National Anthem was sung in Spanish and English at Bush's 1st inaugural.

I have no problem with the National Anthem being sung in spanish. And if it was okay to sing it in spanish earlier, what's the problem now?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2006 10:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:33 am
Posts: 1661
Location: About 260 miles northeast of Stu's backyard.
*pulls his hair out in frustration for having to answer the same question 3 times in the same thread*

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 12:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:25 am
Posts: 4266
Location: Blowing my brains out through my nose
StrongRad wrote:
Santa Zeno wrote:
Whether it's morally right or not doesn't matter, though. They have the right to do it, under the first amendment.

Really, I could only oppose it from an aesthetics point of view. I find Spanish to be an ugly language... even compared to English.

The first amendment is only valid for US citizens, though ;) .
Sorry.. I had to say it.

I'm sorry. I didn't think that all spanish-only-speaking Americans were illegal.

_________________
No, I lied. I'm never going to have a good sig. So just forget about it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 12:58 am 
Offline
Pizza Pizza
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:05 pm
Posts: 10451
Location: probably the penalty box
topofsm wrote:
StrongRad wrote:
Santa Zeno wrote:
Whether it's morally right or not doesn't matter, though. They have the right to do it, under the first amendment.

Really, I could only oppose it from an aesthetics point of view. I find Spanish to be an ugly language... even compared to English.

The first amendment is only valid for US citizens, though ;) .
Sorry.. I had to say it.

I'm sorry. I didn't think that all spanish-only-speaking Americans were illegal.

I didn't say that.

_________________
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 3:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:25 am
Posts: 4266
Location: Blowing my brains out through my nose
That is what you are implying.

I was being sarcastic in the above thread if you couldn't tell. Hard to tell on these forums.

_________________
No, I lied. I'm never going to have a good sig. So just forget about it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 3:35 am 
Offline
Pizza Pizza
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:05 pm
Posts: 10451
Location: probably the penalty box
topofsm wrote:
That is what you are implying.

I was being sarcastic in the above thread if you couldn't tell. Hard to tell on these forums.

No... I was implying that this is being done on behalf of illegal immigrants, who, aren't covered under the bill of rights.

Of course, if it's being done by people who are legally here, there's nothing I can do about it. (not that there's anything I can do about illegal immigrants anyway).

_________________
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 4:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 5:21 pm
Posts: 15581
Location: Hey! I'm looking for some kind of trangly thing!
StrongRad wrote:
That translates back all strange, though. OMG It's Rushglish!

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO USSR!

_________________
ImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 4:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:10 am
Posts: 14278
Location: Behind Blue Eyes
Didymus wrote:
StrongRad wrote:
That translates back all strange, though. OMG It's Rushglish!

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO USSR!
I think StrongRad left his grammar book in Monterey.

I think the National Anthem should be translated into Spanish. It would be a great way to show our immigrints how much they are valued.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 4:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 10:36 pm
Posts: 4328
Location: The island. Where and when that is I cannot say...
lahimatoa wrote:
Quote:
This... this is actually an issue? Why would anyone be opposed to a translation? I'm honestly baffled.


Please read all previous posts before being baffled.

Quote:
Translating, fine.

Adding whole new ideas to a song and putting it into another language is not translating.


Quote:
I don't like what I've heard about the words being completely rewritten in the translation.


I did, and I didn't understand what you meant. You have to shift words around when you're tranlsating a song in order to keep the meter and rhyme. The French version of O Canada has different lyrics from the English version. But I didn't realize it was deliberately being changed to make a political statement. Sorry.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 5:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2004 5:07 pm
Posts: 890
Location: Royse City, TX
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5369145

This site has the lyrics to the version that's causing all of the fuss. The 1st verse is about as close as you could expect while matching meter and rhyme etc. The 2nd verse is truly out of the blue. And I noticed that Ian mentioned the remixed version, which features this rap in english between the two verses:
Quote:
It’s time to make a difference the kids, men and the women/Let’s stand for our beliefs, let’s stand for our vision/What about the children los ninos como P-Star
These kids have no parents, cause all of these mean laws.
See this can’t happen, not only about the Latins.
Asians, blacks and whites and all they do is adding
more and more, let’s not start a war
with all these hard workers,
they can’t help where they were born.


I can see where the annoyance is coming from. They haven't translated the national anthem, they've written a new song condemning America's treatment of illegal immigrants to the tune of our national anthem.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 6:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:33 am
Posts: 1661
Location: About 260 miles northeast of Stu's backyard.
Quote:
You have to shift words around when you're tranlsating a song in order to keep the meter and rhyme.


Exactly. I speak a foreign language and am somewhat passable at French, and I completely understand that when translating to another language, especially songs, you cannot do a word-for-word translation. Word changes are needed to make sense and keep meter, etc.

But when you go beyond changing words to changing the entire idea of the song, that's out of line, IMO.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 10:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:19 pm
Posts: 945
Location: Michigan
No. It should only be in English

_________________
If at first you don't succeed, try, try, try again. :)

ImageImageImageImage
:)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2006 10:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 9:14 pm
Posts: 1698
Location: Falling off a cliff. Please send help.
Badri3211 wrote:
No. It should only be in English

Why? Do you have any logic or reasons to back that up?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 12:11 am 
Offline
Pizza Pizza
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:05 pm
Posts: 10451
Location: probably the penalty box
Exhibit A wrote:
Badri3211 wrote:
No. It should only be in English

Why? Do you have any logic or reasons to back that up?

It's an opinion.
People don't have to back up opinions.

I can't say I totally agree with that opinion, I don't have a problem with a beautiful song in other languages, but badri3211 is more than entitled to their opinion.

_________________
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 12:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:17 pm
Posts: 1670
Location: Texas, U.S.A.
StrongRad wrote:
Exhibit A wrote:
Badri3211 wrote:
No. It should only be in English

Why? Do you have any logic or reasons to back that up?

It's an opinion.
People don't have to back up opinions.


No, they don't...but it helps if you can explain the reasoning behind why you think how you do. I mean, imagine if a racist didn't explain his or her reasoning for being prejudice--we might not get to see if that person has any fallacies in their reasoning (which we could in turn correct) that led to such a result.

_________________
The meaning of life is 'bucket.'

FOR PONY!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 12:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 9:14 pm
Posts: 1698
Location: Falling off a cliff. Please send help.
StrongRad wrote:
Exhibit A wrote:
Badri3211 wrote:
No. It should only be in English

Why? Do you have any logic or reasons to back that up?

It's an opinion.
People don't have to back up opinions.

I can't say I totally agree with that opinion, I don't have a problem with a beautiful song in other languages, but badri3211 is more than entitled to their opinion.

I know that, my point there must be some reason he has that opinion, and I want to know what it is. I just don't see what he could have against the anthem being translated.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 1:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:19 pm
Posts: 945
Location: Michigan
StrongRad wrote:
Exhibit A wrote:
Badri3211 wrote:
No. It should only be in English

Why? Do you have any logic or reasons to back that up?

It's an opinion.
People don't have to back up opinions.

I can't say I totally agree with that opinion, I don't have a problem with a beautiful song in other languages, but badri3211 is more than entitled to their opinion.


I agree with StrongRad in this one. Opinions do not necessarily have to be explained. Only facts and theories needed to be explained. ;)

_________________
If at first you don't succeed, try, try, try again. :)

ImageImageImageImage
:)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 1:09 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 9:14 pm
Posts: 1698
Location: Falling off a cliff. Please send help.
Badri3211 wrote:
StrongRad wrote:
Exhibit A wrote:
Badri3211 wrote:
No. It should only be in English

Why? Do you have any logic or reasons to back that up?

It's an opinion.
People don't have to back up opinions.

I can't say I totally agree with that opinion, I don't have a problem with a beautiful song in other languages, but badri3211 is more than entitled to their opinion.


I agree with StrongRad in this one. Opinions do not necessarily have to be explained. Only facts and theories needed to be explained. ;)

I would at least like to know if there is any actual reason you think the Anthem should not be translated. I just want to understand your position.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 1:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 09, 2004 5:21 am
Posts: 2140
Location: My Backyard
I tend to feel that the national anthem of any country changes when it is translated from it's original tongue. For example, certain songs are beautiful when sung in French, but as soon as you figure out the English translation they are just ho-hum. I don't really see the need to do something like this for something like the national anthem. I don't mind that other things be translated (Pledge of Allegiance, Constitituion, etc...)

I do stand with Lahi here though on the problem with adding lyrics or changing the theme of the lyrics. I also don't think that we are the only two that feel that way.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 1:28 am 
Offline
Pizza Pizza
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 4:05 pm
Posts: 10451
Location: probably the penalty box
Stu wrote:
I also don't think that we are the only two that feel that way.

You're not the only one.

I'm just sick of being called a racist for feeling that way. (nobody here is doing that, but I work with some REALLY liberal people)

_________________
If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 1:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:17 pm
Posts: 1670
Location: Texas, U.S.A.
Stu wrote:
I tend to feel that the national anthem of any country changes when it is translated from it's original tongue. For example, certain songs are beautiful when sung in French, but as soon as you figure out the English translation they are just ho-hum. I don't really see the need to do something like this for something like the national anthem. I don't mind that other things be translated (Pledge of Allegiance, Constitituion, etc...)


This is true, even if you speak a second language fluently. The reason is because there is so much more to language than just a spoken word--the ideas, both denotative and connotative, can change between languages when translating. Connotative meanings can have a lot heavier impact on a person or society than denotative meanings, and such connotations are generally only learned through the life-long process of sociolization in one's own culture.

Plus, I even have a theory that goes so far as to suggest that the phonetics of words and languages have some sort of subliminal impact on people, much more than we might give credit for.

_________________
The meaning of life is 'bucket.'

FOR PONY!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 9:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 7:27 pm
Posts: 11940
Location: Puttin the voodoo in the stew, I'm tellin you
I have no problem with a basic translation of it at all.

I do have a problem with the meaning of the song being changed through changed lyrics.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 10:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 11:34 pm
Posts: 919
Location: All up ins
StrongRad wrote:
Santa Zeno wrote:
Whether it's morally right or not doesn't matter, though. They have the right to do it, under the first amendment.

Really, I could only oppose it from an aesthetics point of view. I find Spanish to be an ugly language... even compared to English.

The first amendment is only valid for US citizens, though ;) .
Sorry.. I had to say it.


Oooooohhh...that's right. Dag, yo. Anyway, I think they don't have to do that one version critisizing the immagration policy. That's dumb and sort of disrespectful. Why would you record a song with anthem of a country and then critisize it's veiws? Couldn't you just do the 2 seperatley? Maybe on the same album.

_________________
Dag, yo.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 4:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 12:28 am
Posts: 253
Location: ! Location! Location!
They are living in America where the choose to live. They should follow by Americas rules. Whatever law they pass, they must follow.

Why should we translate if this is America and the main language is English. It doesn't make any sense to me.

_________________
Image
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 4:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 9:14 pm
Posts: 1698
Location: Falling off a cliff. Please send help.
ButtdanceHR wrote:
They are living in America where the choose to live. They should follow by Americas rules. Whatever law they pass, they must follow.

Why should we translate if this is America and the main language is English. It doesn't make any sense to me.

Maybe because there are people who don't speak English who are proud of this country?

This has nothing to do with any laws or rules of the country. Remember, the USA doesn't have an official language.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 5:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:17 pm
Posts: 1670
Location: Texas, U.S.A.
ButtdanceHR wrote:
They are living in America where the choose to live. They should follow by Americas rules. Whatever law they pass, they must follow.


Henry David Thoreau might disagree with you there, with his ideas of civil disobedience. If you whole-heartedly disagree with a certain law that was passed, Thoreau would say to not abide by it--even if it means spending time in jail for it--because you're doing what you believe to be morally right instead of just blindly following a law that was passed by people in power in your vast country that you may well disagree with.

_________________
The meaning of life is 'bucket.'

FOR PONY!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 4:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:58 am
Posts: 1013
Location: St. Elsewhere
I seriously don't care. If we all wanted to sing the National Anthem in its original language, we should sing it in Cherokee.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 6:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:17 pm
Posts: 1670
Location: Texas, U.S.A.
Hi Guys wrote:
I seriously don't care. If we all wanted to sing the National Anthem in its original language, we should sing it in Cherokee.


Umm...I thought the original text was in English. I know you're trying to make a point about Native Americans...but even they migrated to this continent--even if it was hundreds or thousands of years before anyone else. So we're all migrants in some form or another--except for anyone whose geneology has ever remained strictly in the same place where humans first came to be.

And besides...Cherokees aren't the only tribe of Native Americans ever...>>

_________________
The meaning of life is 'bucket.'

FOR PONY!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 7:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:58 am
Posts: 1013
Location: St. Elsewhere
PianoManGidley wrote:
Hi Guys wrote:
I seriously don't care. If we all wanted to sing the National Anthem in its original language, we should sing it in Cherokee.


Umm...I thought the original text was in English. I know you're trying to make a point about Native Americans...but even they migrated to this continent--even if it was hundreds or thousands of years before anyone else. So we're all migrants in some form or another--except for anyone whose geneology has ever remained strictly in the same place where humans first came to be.

And besides...Cherokees aren't the only tribe of Native Americans ever...>>


Yeah, but you get the point...

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2006 7:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 10, 2004 5:21 pm
Posts: 15581
Location: Hey! I'm looking for some kind of trangly thing!
Hey! Our ancestors raped, murdered, and pillaged this land from them fair and square!

_________________
ImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 70 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group