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 Post subject: "Gospel of Judas" discovered
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:48 am 
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Judas Cast in New Light

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Judas cast in new light
Apr. 7, 2006. 05:12 AM
FRANCINE KOPUN
FEATURE WRITER

One of the greatest villains in history was in truth a hero for the ages, according to an ancient gospel unveiled yesterday in Washington.

Judas Iscariot, a man whose name became synonymous with betrayal for selling information about Jesus to the Romans for 30 pieces of silver — an act that led to the arrest and crucifixion of the man Christians regard as the son of God — was acting on orders from Jesus himself.

"He's the good guy. He's the only apostle who understands Jesus," said Bart Ehrman, chair of the Department of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and an expert in the New Testament. "In this gospel it turns out that Judas does turn Jesus over to the authorities, but according to this gospel, this is what Jesus wanted."

In fact, Jesus entrusted Judas with a secret he did not reveal to any of his other disciples: That this world was not created by the one true God, but by a lesser, evil divinity as a place to entrap divine spirits.

"The idea of this gospel is that humans have a divine spirit trapped within them that needed to escape their bodies and Jesus was just here temporarily and he also needed to escape and Judas provided him the way of doing it," said Ehrman.

Jesus even told Judas that he would come to be reviled through the ages for his actions, according to the gospel.

"Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom," Jesus says. "It is possible for you to reach it, but you will grieve a great deal ... you will be cursed by the other generations ... and you will come to rule over them ... you will exceed all of them. For you will sacrifice the man that clothes me."

The "man that clothes me" is believed to be a reference to the human body occupied by Jesus.

The leather-bound papyrus text was found in the desert near El Minya, Egypt, in the 1970s.

It had been lost for nearly 1,700 years and some biblical scholars are calling the Gospel of Judas the most significant archaeological find in 60 years. The gospel was found in a codex, or ancient book, that dates back to the third or fourth century A.D.

It then circulated among antiquities traders, moving from Egypt to Europe to the U.S., according to information from the National Geographic Society, which held a news conference in Washington yesterday to announce the find. The society owns the publishing rights to the gospel and it is featured on a TV special on the society's digital channel on Sunday night, one week before the holiest day of the Christian calendar, Easter.

The text languished in a safe-deposit box on Long Island, N.Y., for 16 years before being bought by a Zurich-based antiquities dealer. During that time, as much as 20 per cent of the manuscript, believed to have been copied down in Coptic — the language of the Christian church in Egypt — around 300 A.D., crumbled beyond salvation.

When attempts to resell the manuscript fell through, it was transferred to the Maecenas Foundation for Ancient Art in Basel, Switzerland, in February 2001 for conservation and translation.

The papyrus manuscript — a form of paper made of dried water plants — has been authenticated by radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging. Leading scholars who have studied the content and linguistic style of the manuscript have verified its authenticity.

There is no doubt it is genuine, said Ehrman.

Putting it back together was like assembling a jigsaw puzzle with 1,500 pieces, no picture to work with and many of the pieces missing. The manuscript was so brittle it crumbled at the slightest touch.

The view of Judas as Jesus' favourite apostle was espoused by the Gnostics, members of a second century A.D. Christian sect. The Gnostics believed that the way to salvation was through secret knowledge given by Jesus to his inner circle, and that Judas was the most enlightened apostle.

Mention has been made several times throughout history of the existence of a Gospel of Judas — the first known reference was made in 180 A.D. by Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyon, who denounced it as heresy.

The gospel was suppressed by the early Church because it conflicted with the teaching that the world was created by the one true God and that Jesus was his son, said Ehrman. The Gospel of Judas teaches that Jesus was the son, not of the creator, but of the true God, completely spiritual, beyond the world and our imagination. It conflicts with the Nicene Creed, recited in church services, which states: "I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth."

Canadian Bill Klassen, a biblical scholar and author of a book called Judas: Betrayer or Friend of Jesus, was one of the experts consulted in the lead-up to the release of the documents. He spent a week in Jerusalem in consultations, and says he's not 100 per cent persuaded it's the real thing.

"There have been so many fraudulent things."

He says there are many clues in the New Testament that point to the possibility that Judas was not a traitor, but in fact the most beloved of Jesus.

According to the New Testament, Judas betrayed Jesus with a kiss to identify him to his persecutors. Crazed with guilt, Judas later hanged himself. His name has become synonymous with treachery.

But he has been reclaimed in pop culture. Judas was sympathetically portrayed in the hit musical Jesus Christ Superstar, the controversial movie The Last Temptation of Christ, and in songs throughout the ages.

Klassen said he hopes the discussion surrounding the gospel will lead people into a deeper consideration of "the other," to decrease their suspicion of those who are different, to question motives.

If Judas, the most notorious turncoat of all times, was actually the good guy, what does that say about others we believe to be bad?

Ehrman said he doubts the newly revealed gospel will change anyone's beliefs.

"I think what this gospel does is show us that Christians in the early centuries believed an extremely wide range of things."


I think this is an absolutely fascinating find, and I can't wait to see the debates that spring up as to whether or not this is an accurate document. I have always had a problem with the depiction of Judas as the ultimate traitor. I'm no biblical expert, but if Jesus was truly meant to die on that cross, and if his death really did hold the power to redeem sin, then wasn't Judas actually the catalyst in a turning point for humanity?
The one thing that stands out to me- and the one thing that makes me question the document's authenticity- is the passage about the world being created by an evil deity to trap spirits. That flies right in the face of accepted Christian doctrine, as the article points out. Actually, it sort of reminds me of the story of Xenu in Scientology's scripture. I'll definitely be watching for more news on this remarkable find.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:08 am 
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ha! i told you all! i told everyone That Judas was SELECTED by Jesus to turn him in! well i guess this shal be added to the bible...

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:39 am 
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Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
ha! i told you all! i told everyone That Judas was SELECTED by Jesus to turn him in! well i guess this shal be added to the bible...
Two things.

#1. When the heck did you say that?

#2. I doubt that. The Catholic Church along with many other denominations veiw the Gnostics as heretical. I highly doubt that the Bible will be changed for this. Not to mention the accuracy of this document is highly skeptical too. The Four Canonical Gospels were all written between 30-110 AD and each one was witten either by an Apostle(Matthew) or had a relationship to one of the Twelve Apostles. This was written around 150 AD and so far has not been shown to have a link to any of the Apostles.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:37 am 
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Wow, another text contradicting the Bible. Look, this Gospel of Judas is just trying to put him & other "Evil" figures in a good light; there's nothing authentic about it.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:39 am 
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IantheGecko wrote:
Wow, another text contradicting the Bible. Look, this Gospel of Judas is just trying to put him & other "Evil" figures in a good light; there's nothing authentic about it.


you never know, Ian, Perhaps Judas Was Instructed by Jesus to Turn him in, you never know.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:09 am 
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Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
IantheGecko wrote:
Wow, another text contradicting the Bible. Look, this Gospel of Judas is just trying to put him & other "Evil" figures in a good light; there's nothing authentic about it.


you never know, Ian, Perhaps Judas Was Instructed by Jesus to Turn him in, you never know.


Yeah, I mean, you can't just dismiss solid evidence like that. I'm not religious, but heck, you never know.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:12 am 
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Solid? This "Gospel" dates from about 150-180 AD, years after the other books in the New Testament were written.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:16 am 
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You know, while I'm strong in the Catholic belief, this has really gotten me thinking. It's quite amazing. I'm actually at a loss for words, whether it is true or not.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:36 am 
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IantheGecko wrote:
Solid? This "Gospel" dates from about 150-180 AD, years after the other books in the New Testament were written.


Well, you're right. I'm just saying you can't dismiss the theory right off the bat.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 5:35 am 
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If this is true, it changes a lot of things. This is going to be very controversial. But the bible cannot always be translated literally.

Still, I did before this beleive that everything is supposed to happen as it happens, including Judas' betrayal.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:08 am 
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IantheGecko wrote:
Solid? This "Gospel" dates from about 150-180 AD, years after the other books in the New Testament were written.


Not only that, but it was allegedly found written on papyrus, which if memory serves me correctly, is highly degradeable and RARELY stands the test of time. No, considering the source of this article, I'd say that it's rather fraudulent....or at least suspect to excruciating inquiry.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:38 pm 
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There's already plenty of ancient Christian documents which contradict current Christian doctrine. Maybe a few more sects will pop up as a result, but for most people it is quite meaningless. It's a matter of faith...in whatever their church says, regardless of whether they said some thing different ages ago.

Any one who makes an intellectual inquiry in to this will find that prevailing religious authorities picked the works they liked the most and decided for themselves what was holy and what was human.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:14 pm 
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There are some problems with this document. First, it was written in Coptic, not Greek. Coptic is the language of Egypt, and is a strong indication that it originated in Alexandria at a later period in time. On the other hand, if any Greek manuscripts are or become available, then this might attest to its authenticity.

My own assessment is this: GOJ was considered by the early Church to be a Gnostic rather than a Christian document. Alexandrian Christians tended to be somewhat influenced by gnostic philosophy. In fact, Origen, one of the early Alexandrian theologians, was accused of being a gnostic. Anyway, since this manuscript is in Coptic, it is highly likely to have been composed by one of the Christian gnostics at a late date. This is not necessarily a correct assessment. Like I said, if new evidence to support an earlier composition in Greek or Aramaic arises, then my theory might need reassessment. But even then, it doesn't necessarily make it canonical.

Now, as for what scholars perport to be the chief issue: was Judas forgiven for his betrayal, or was his betrayal the act of a faithful disciple following orders? I am not convinced that Judas was simply "following orders." Jesus knew that Judas was the one that would betray him, and apparently, Judas knew this to be the case. But keep in mind, Judas was also the one who was stealing from Jesus' money bag.

It was necessary for Judas to betray Jesus. Otherwise, the redemption of the world could not occur. Judas was the instrument that brought Jesus into that position where he could lay his life down.

Something else that also interests me (particularly since, as a Lutheran, I firmly believe in the Sacramental nature of Holy Communion), is that, as far as we know, Judas was present to receive Communion from the Lord's hand. In other words, Jesus gave his body and blood to this traitor. That is the self-sacrificial nature of Jesus: he is willing to give himself even to the man who was to betray him.

It is also true that the other disciples betrayed Jesus. And none of them really believed that Jesus would return from the dead, despite his constant reminding them that he would.

Traditionally, Christians have tended to believe that Judas was damned for two reasons: (1) he committed suicide, and (2) Peter seems to think him condemned in Acts 1:16ff.

As to that, we must remember that suicide is not the cardinal sin for which there is no forgiveness. We do not know the state of Judas' soul at the time of his suicide, and the suicide itself appears to be an act of contrition, anyway (not that contrition necessarily makes it right, either). So let's not judge him too harshly based on the suicide.

As for Peter's discourse in Acts, Peter is referring specifically to the Field of Blood, in which Judas' body was broken. Peter does not seem to be speaking to Judas' eternal destiny, but rather to his death.

So what happened to Judas after his death? Who knows? Does it really matter? If Judas found redemption at all, it was the same kind of redemption that all the apostles had, that all of us have: that Christ died for him. But ultimately, we cannot know for certain.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:10 pm 
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I think Diddy killed this thread with his awesome command of logic.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:43 pm 
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did anybody else see the "Gospel of Judas" last night on National Geographic channel?

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Prof. Tor Coolguy wrote:
I think Diddy killed this thread with his awesome command of logic.

agreed! :)


Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
did anybody else see the "Gospel of Judas" last night on National Geographic channel?


Nope, will it be on again?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:54 pm 
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beats me....

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:58 pm 
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cyco wrote:
Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
did anybody else see the "Gospel of Judas" last night on National Geographic channel?


Nope, will it be on again?
Most likely. I mean something a big as this will definately earn itself a re-air.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:15 pm 
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I've always questioned the whole "Judas is a bad guy" thing. I mean, had he not turned Jesus in, that whole dying for our sins thing couldn't have happened.

Jesus telling Judas to turn him in makes a little more sense. Jesus could have turned himself in (thus fulfilling the prophecy), but by telling Judas to turn him in, the prophecy gets fulfilled and Jesus' right hand man pockets a little coin. The desciples weren't rich men, after all, so they could have benefited from any source of income.

I've been kicking this idea around in my head for a while. It's interesting that this Gospel might agree with it.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 10:36 pm 
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Yes, but if Judas knew he was acting on Jesus's orders, why did he commit suicide afterwards?

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Acekirby wrote:
Yes, but if Judas knew he was acting on Jesus's orders, why did he commit suicide afterwards?


because, no matter if they wanted you to kill them or turn them in to wich theyd get killed, your still going to feel prety freakin bad about it, so bad taht you couldnt even live with it; Killing your best friend.

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Acekirby wrote:
Yes, but if Judas knew he was acting on Jesus's orders, why did he commit suicide afterwards?
Probably from the guilt that he had. He helped kill his friend, eventhough he was acting on orders, it still would have been a huge load to bear.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:31 am 
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This isn't going to be added to the Bible. It's a gnostic text with a clear agenda (in this one: make Judas look good). It's going to get filed away with the gospels of Thomas, Mary, Peter, and all the rest.

There's one HUGE problem with this. Judas DIES before Jesus does. The only people according to this new "gospel" that believe Judas to be the good guy are Jesus and Judas. Where did this come from, then? The other apostles clearly demonized him and only the gospel of Thomas claims to be direct dictation. Thus the only way for this to exist is if Judas had told someone else, outside of the circle of apostles, every single thing that was going on which seems bloody unlikely.

Of course, I could always just wonder about the fact that a guy whose name roughly translates to "Jew Knife-Assassin" (Judas from the same origin at "Judaism" and "Iscariot" most likely from the "Sacarii" knife assassins) causing the death of a man whose name translates to "Annointed Saviour" (Jesus Christ, for the slow). The glaring message of "look, the Jews killed our saviour" is just impossible to ignore. But that gets to my religious beliefs, which is a can of worms I don't mean to open here.

The gnostics had tons of text that claim to be lost gospels. First we had Thomas's direct dictation, then we had Mary's gospel proving that MARY was the "chosen" one, now it's Judas's. After the buzz dies down, this too will die out.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 1:19 pm 
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Funny how all these 'lost gospels' seem to be found only after the Da Vinci Code controversy and the other so called 'lost gospels' being found. Many are Gnostic in origin, not Christian and I think they do more harm than good.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:19 pm 
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It all comes down to what you want to believe really, I mean there MUST be texts out there that glorify Sodom and Lucifer (respectivly) so why not Judas?

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Beyond the Grave wrote:
Acekirby wrote:
Yes, but if Judas knew he was acting on Jesus's orders, why did he commit suicide afterwards?
Probably from the guilt that he had. He helped kill his friend, eventhough he was acting on orders, it still would have been a huge load to bear.

You know, I knew someone was going to post that in response. And I agree with it, but...

Something about it still doesn't seem right.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2006 9:49 pm 
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Prof. Tor Coolguy wrote:
It all comes down to what you want to believe really, I mean there MUST be texts out there that glorify Sodom and Lucifer (respectivly) so why not Judas?


wasnt Sodom the name of one of those two cities? Sodom and Gimora?

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Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
Prof. Tor Coolguy wrote:
It all comes down to what you want to believe really, I mean there MUST be texts out there that glorify Sodom and Lucifer (respectivly) so why not Judas?


wasnt Sodom the name of one of those two cities? Sodom and Gimora?


Yeah, this is why I put the (respectivly) there.

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Prof. Tor Coolguy wrote:
Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
Prof. Tor Coolguy wrote:
It all comes down to what you want to believe really, I mean there MUST be texts out there that glorify Sodom and Lucifer (respectivly) so why not Judas?


wasnt Sodom the name of one of those two cities? Sodom and Gimora?


Yeah, this is why I put the (respectivly) there.


Gimora is a different name for Lucifer?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:40 pm 
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No. Gomorrah is a city in the same region as Sodom. It was destroyed in the same catastrophe.

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