Homestar Runner Wiki Forum

Mind you, I've never read the Bible: but why are those against homosexuality ocassionally using that quote from Leviticus then? As far as I know the Bible doesn't delve too deeply into the sin of homosexuality and the sexual sins of the new testament have to do a lot with adultery. Is there anything in the new testament condemning homosexuality? Is there anything saying follow all the rules of the old testament except for those on dietary restrictions? As I said, I'm not incredibly familiar with the Bible. I just find Christianity fascinating, especially fundamentalism and evangelism. I disagree with a lot of how things are today, but I can tolerate such interpretations.

(I want to read the Bible someday, but I can't find a cheap paperback of the KJV. Do they exist anymore? O_o)

Still, to stay a little on topic, homosexuality is not bad in my book.

Yep. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, for one.

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." [emphasis mine]

This has been translated in several ways in the different versions, but here's the KJV:

"abusers of themselves with men." Or the New King James: "sodomites".

Either way, pretty obvous that Paul is condemning homosexuals.



You should be able to pick one up in any Christian bookstore.

Or also try The Message//Remix, an awesome paraphrase of the Bible in everyday English.

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Hey, that's cool. I always wanted to read one of those everyday English Bibles. T'would be a good read.

I would, but I don't think that Christianity's for me, so I'd be reading the Bible from a scholarly perspective, making the King James the best one to read. You'd think that a place like Barnes and Nobles would have just a simple Bible, but last time I went they were all fancy leather bound ones and study bibles. (I feel so ignorant in this discussion--I may know more about Pat Robertson and fundamentalist Christian colleges than the average American but all I know of the actual fundamentals of the faith is from secondary sources.)

Mehhh... I was raised Catholic but that doesn't exactly encourage you to peruse the Bible for your own. The only Bible in our house is one from a Penn and Teller stageshow.

Once again, another quick question on homosexuality in the Bible: is there anything condemning it in the Gospels (in one of Jesus's speeches or whatnot...) or just the secondary new testament books? (excuse me for possibly bad vocabulary and knowledge. I know I'm slightly idiotic here.)

Jesus himself NEVER said ANYTHING about homosexuality (at least in the Bible as it stands today). In fact, anything in the New Testament condemning homosexuality was written by one man: Paul. He wrote a number of books that are in the Bible, and since he was a murderer before becoming a "man of God," I would say that it is very likely that his character would be not entirely stable--even after converting. Therefore, his opinions that he expresses--such as his homophobia--should be taken with extreme caution, IMO.

And for a bit more on Jesus--if you can find it (I wish I could), I've heard that one of the books that King James removed from the Bible during his editing and retranslating contained a story of Jesus himself presiding over the handfasting of a gay male couple, then blessing the couple afterwards. Now THAT would make for a lovely piece of evidence in defense of Christ-approved homosexuality.

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The meaning of life is 'bucket.'

FOR PONY!!!

I've heard that, and I've also heard that was just something started by people wanting to cause trouble.
Truth is, it doesn't really matter to me. IF homosexuality is a sin, it will be dealt with by God (meaning that anything that mankind does to homosexuals is essentially meaningless, so why persecute?), and if it is not a sin, then why persecute people who are doing nothing wrong.

In short, I'm-a forgo taking a stand either way on homosexuality and let God deal with it however He pleases.

I voted against Kentucky's "marriage defined as being between one man and one woman" bill in 2004. I don't think it's my place to say. Like with free speech, if I start telling people how to live their lives, they'll have the right to tell me how to live my life.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

Okay, here's an interesting outgrowth of recognizing gay relationships as equal to heterosexual ones. There are roommates of the same sex applying for work benefits (and others) afforded to gay couples. Now HR staffs are saying that you need to be in a "committed relationship" with the person you apply for benefits with... how do you define that?

It's an interesting conundrum... I suppose in the end companies will just to have to give benefits to anyone who wants them. A possible negative outcome.

Now, to explain my position on the issue of homosexual marriage: Logically I see little to nothing wrong with it. If two consenting adults want to be recognized as legal partners with the same rights afforded to heterosexual couples, okay. I do not see how this harms me, logically.

However, I believe that God has ordained marriage to be between a man and a woman. That's it. He has created us so that only males procreating with females can create life. Only heterosexual marriages have any chance of being recognized in the hereafter.

With this light, I do not know why some people have an innate sexual attraction to their same sex. I do not believe that all homosexuals become that way through certain behaviors, but I believe some do. I do not hate those who are homosexual. They, like everyone else on the planet, are my brothers and sisters, and deserve respect, kindness, and love, which I seek to give everyone.

I'm not willing to debate my beliefs, however, as there is no logical way (that I can see) to do so. There are other examples of things God commands that are not logical to our knowledge right now, Abraham being commanded to kill Isaac being one of them. I believe that one day I will know the reason, but I do not now.

I especially respect people like PianoManGidley, who fight for their rights in a respectful, optimistic way that encourages all to see his point of view. I've learned a lot from his posts, and in no way has he influenced me to think that his rights are better than they are.

That is all.

Well, 1 Corinthians mentions it, as Douglas pointed out. But there isn't anything in the Gospels about homosexuality. That doesn't mean that it's not important, though; the Letters in the NT are still part of God's Word.

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And God's Word is God-breathed, and Jesus is God, so basically, Jesus is saying that homosexuality is wrong.

And as for Paul being a murderer and possibly unstable, it just shows the power that God has; He can even use someone like Paul to further His plan for the world.

But that's the problem; you can't debate your beliefs logically since they aren't really logical. This is why they're beliefs and not true political views, but they're still illogical even for beliefs.

Someone made this point elsewhere with racism - not sure if it was on this forum, but if there truly was a lack of homophobia in the way you live your life you wouldn't need to assert your tolerance except when it is absolutely and directly relevant. It shows that you have other conflicting values you need to cover up or else people will see you as a less acceptable person socially, or a general discomfort that you chose to work around instead of dealing with.

The real reason people respect PianoManGidley is because he doesn't make them really think. He's an extremely rare example and rather annoying for people who do want to keep a decent balance between respectful and rebellious. If you see someone who's obviously gotten hit hard - it makes you feel guilty and think you may have to rethink or your ideals or some small aspect of your life. With PianoManGidley, he makes you think it's okay so you don't have to be on the defense.

It's pretty hard to deny this. The difference between me and PMG, some anger issues aside, is that PMG puts forward who he is, but he doesn't challenge what's already out there. I do. Soceity is more accepting of homosexuals if they don't challenge it's homophobic values. Society has always liked minorities who "know their place". Because of this many of you react in this manner. And of course you'll deny it. But it's pretty well known that most oppressers don't have a problem with the oppressed - only those among the oppressed that may end the oppression.

I'm sorry, but I'm going to take what psychology tells me over what people themselves tell me. And I'm pretty firm this is why PianoManGidley is so much better "liked" than me. He's made my time hear harder than anyone with an opposing view - the people who can hurt you most are the ones on your own side. I'm strongly thinking of leaving now as I'm afraid to say anything without him "debunking" it because he's gay and he's in Texas so obviously everything is perfect for gays. The fact is he is rare, but it still makes arguing my case near impossible.

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My honest opinion on homosexuality: It is fine. Let them get married. I'll never understand how the marriage status of two men or two women is going to affect anybody in any way, except for those two people.
As an athiest, this is a very easy conclusion for me to reach. I understand there are religious reasons people have to be against gay marriage, but I know an arguement, or even a debate with somebody with those reasons is futile. So I don't bother.

Those are my honest opinons. Thank you.

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Listen to the Black Crowes.

That's what marriage or civil unions are intended for - I doubt that the welfare bureaucrats will just start handing out benefits for anyone who walks through the door. Bureaucracy doesn't care if you're in a committed relationship, gay or straight, and it doesn't care about marriage as a religious rite - it only cares about those pieces of paper that prove you exist.

My honest opinion on homosexuality?

Hmm.

I'm something of a homophobe, I suppose. I don't condemn gays, I don't put them down, I don't try to change them, I'm not prejudiced against them, and I'm definitely not scared of them. It's just that when I'm around a homosexual who is talking about being a homosexual, I get a little uncomfortable. Then when the conversation changes subjects, I feel fine again.

I'm not sure why. I'm just like that.

(One homosexual that I meant once even said, "You're a homophobe, aren't you?" when I made some sort of expression when he said he was gay. Then he laughed, and we kept talking. So I've never really offended anyone, I don't think.)

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Actually, in my opinion, it makes you an even better person to an extent that you do have that discomfort but don't let it bleed into how you treat others, unlike most people who either don't try, or claim to be tolerant but end up going out of their way to express views that are deeply offensive to most gay people. It's the effort that counts. If you managed to deal with that discomfort it would be even better though, as it probably isn't there for very valid reasons to begin with.

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As a Christian conservative, I'm in a group that has oft been maligned as homphobes or gay haters or things like that. My honest personal oppinion is that yes, they are born liking members of the same sex, but that doesn't mean that they are required to follow through on those feelings. I'm a straight male, does that mean I have to go out and bang (pardon my phraseology) every mildly attractive chick who'll have me? Absolutely not.

In short, love the sinner, hate the sin. Whatever you want to do behind closed doors is fine by me, but I don't want to hear about it, and I don't want a sacred religious institution involved in it.

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Pardon me, but most homosexual men do not "bang" every mildly attractive dude that will have them, either, and the same is true for homosexual women.

This mythos of "homosexuality equals promiscuity" drives me bonkers.

"God made you homosexual, but never wants you to be intimate with someone you love, ever," doesn't exactly say much for a compassionate God.

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So gay people go about and bang every mildly attractive male who'll have them? You have to use a direct comparison here as homosexuality is nothing but the mirror of hetrosexuality.

What it is comparable to is not having sexual or romantic relations with *anyone* purely because some evil minded religious extremists say you shouldn't, and that's not even really getting into the actual discrimination.

There is no solid reason *not* to engage in homosexual activities, as long as you approach it responsibly. Just because some religion sort of says something about it, doesn't mean that it has anything to do with anything for anyone else.



I'm sorry, but I'm rather tired of "Love the sinner, hate the sin", because the "sin" is such a huge part of the sinners life, it really is hard to follow that logic through. And marriage existed waaay before Christianity and there's no way you should be allowed claim that as your own; it's a social institution and that is, quite simply, that.

And I'm afraid when you live in a world with different types of people, you are going to have to hear about it. Homosexuals have to put up with far, far worse every day.

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i think that what he was trying to say is that he, as a straight guy, would like to bang every mildly attractive chick who'll have him, but he chooses not to because it goes against his belief system. similarly, he's saying, homosexuals are not obligated to submit to their desires simply because they have them. i don't think he was trying to imply that all homosexuals have indiscriminate sex with everyone.

That's what he *thought* he was saying, not what the end product was implying, or truly how his beliefs work.

It's not fair, nor accurate to compare moderation to abstinence.

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I notice a lot of people say "I don't care what people do in their own bedroom I just don't want to see it." That's all fine and good for sex. But for people who have this opinion, I have a question. Does that mean you don't want two men walking down the street holding hands? How about a quick kiss between a man and his boyfriend on the lips before saying goodbye at the airport or something? (I'm not talking full-on make-out sessions, I think nobody wants to see that, gay or straight.) Should that be kept away from the public view too?
I hope that the more this happens, the more people will get used to it, and eventually it will become a non-issue. I think this might be the motivation behind the gratuitous flaunting that sometimes goes on in gay pride parades. Eventually people will become desensitized to all that in-your-face sexuality, so seeing two men hold hands or kiss won't be such a big deal anymore.

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Listen to the Black Crowes.

Yeah, I get tired of the "I'm not a homophobe, I just want people to realise that homosexuality is vastly inferior to hetereosexuality" type of people.

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I have never read ANYONE say that (maybe I missed something). It sounds more like you have an inferiority complex.

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The point isn't what people are saying, but what their "Opinions" are implying.

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You should then be clear about what people have said, and what you feel that they are saying. Maybe you are needlessly getting tired of reading into statements things that are not their in the first place.

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You don't really need to have a degree in advanced psychology for this stuff, you know. The implications of their beliefs are more of a logical construct anyway.

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How do you know what I have a degree in and what I don't? Can't you admit you were wrong even once?

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What? What was I wrong about, exactly?

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If you are against homosexuality, does it really affect you if two men or women get married to each other? It's their choice, and I can't see how it affects anyone but themselves.

What is wrong with people against it? How are gay people going to affect them at all anyway?
Although i find homosexuality strange, I don't have a problem with it. Really. People can do what they want.

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