Homestar Runner Wiki Forum

You know only one god, and all endevours to discover more are hindered by the "NO OTHER DAMN GODS!" rule....... oooooooooooo....k

Statisticly, the chance that you're believing in the RIGHT god is very very small. There were a ton of religions before christianity, all of which are, of course, false ("YOU SHALL NAVE NO OTHER GODS!"), and there have been religions AFTER christianity, which are also false ("I SAID: YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS!"). Count in the sentient sponges on Random Planet 434535 who worship the Great Zonko and such, and.... very very small chance.

Other religions have scriptures too. They have Gods of Scripture. These scriptures may differ frighteningly from the bible. Yet these people will INSIST that they are right. And so will you. This constant bickering over religion ruins whatever credibility ANY religion or scripture had.

It just seems very weak and feeble. Read 'n' reply.

Cookies for referencing people we know existed (extra cookie for the Aquinus reference) this time.

She said that is the ONE she believed in, why do you insist on making this an argument about whether or not a "God" exists. This is not what i intened this thread to be about. But dont go saying "You haven't posted alot in this thread" i know i haven't i learned what i needed to know. but KN your giving us Athiests a bad name here on the forum. And statistically the chance we are right about there being no "higher power" is very slim as well.

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As a non-believer myself, I say: Agree'd. You can't trash others for not having evidence for their beliefs, when there's scant evidence for your beliefs, KN. And you can't bring statistics into the argument either - since when have there been statistics to say Christians have/don't have the right god?

Let's get back on topic now, or let this thread die a natural death.

All I'm trying to say here Didy, is that you have no justifacation for trying to save people if you refuse to inquire about their religion, including athiesm. It's hardly fair for anyone to push their religion on anyone and then completely ignore thier religion because of the fact that the second commandment says you shouldn't belive in any other god. Understanding another religion correctly does not break that commandment, or any other orders of the bible. You can't critisize something until you know it.

In other words, why is everybody trying to save athiests? Because the honestly belive that their god is right, and will save the ungodly from a painful eternity in the bowels of hell. Not really a bad thing. However, it is extremely unfair to simply discredit anyone's religion or lifestyle when you don't know anything about it.

I will admit though, socioty has come a long long way, but still has a long way to go until we can all live in harmony. Look around and you can still see remnants of the way people used to act. I have a freind who got grounded for bringing a Beatles CD into the house, and his parents belive that anyone who isn't Christian is Pagan. I'm not allowed to talk to him at all, and the last time I saw him was when he smuggles be into his Youth Group party. And just like that, one of the best experiences of my life was at a baptist church. This is proof that ignorance is not an answer, and being rid of it has bettered out live's.

Hannah

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Hannah:

1. Who says I don't know anything about other religions? I have a Bachelor's in Humanities and a Master of Divinity. You don't get one of those without knowing at least a little something about other religions. I have personally studied the teachings of Hindu, Dao, and Shinto, all as part of my academic studies (I could factor in Jewish as well, but some would argue that it doesn't count, since one can hardly study Christianity without a fair amount of exposure to the Hebrew faith).

2. Why does that standard apply to me and not others? I mean, did you happen to read how KN introduced himself on this thread? Do you think that it's fair for him to make the kind of challenges he made, but that I am not allowed to respond with my own faith? (In case you didn't happen to notice, his very first post on this thread was essentially, "I want to argue with Christians so that I can slam them and ignore what they have to say." He even went as far as to make several ad hominem attacks against me personally. That is hardly conducive to the spirit of intelligent discussion, and all I did was challenge him on that attitude).

3. The parents of that one kid are extremists. I am not an extremist. I read Harry Potter and listen to Freestyle music, for goodness sake. I think it is a bit unfair to characterize me as an extremist just because I happen to believe the words of Jesus are true, and happen to encourage other people to do the same (in fact, it's my job). My point is that I cannot take my own faith seriously and also simultaneously accept other religious philosophies that do not agree with his words as valid.

4. My disagreement with other religious philosophies is not based on ignorance, but on knowledge. I know my God, and I know what he says. Therefore, for me to disagree with someone who disagrees with the words of my God is not ignorance.

I will concede that respect for other people is the best way to approach this subject. That's part of the reason I was so hard on KN. I felt he was extremely disrespectful to Christians like myself when he came on this forum. Recent posts by mods suggest that I am not wrong in this assessment. That's also why, when Choco began insulting KN, I urged him to refrain. But respect for persons does not necessarily mean I have to believe everything they try to tell me.

But that respect goes two ways. And the question I posed to you earlier is this: how much respect are you willing to offer to me and to what I believe? I posed the question before, if Jesus really did say, "Make disciples of all people," then do I not have the responsibility to follow, and is that not true for every Christian? If Jesus really did say, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no one comes unto the Father except by me," then do I not have a responsibility to present this way, this truth, and this life to people, so that they too might come to the Father?

And I will give you credit, Hannah. You have not attacked me personally, nor do I regard your challenges as personal attacks. You show signs of someone who is at least considering these deeper issues.

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I missed have missed Choco's insulting posts

EDIT: let me answer Choco's query:



I'm gonna rot ten feet under, just like you and everyone else. Paint toast or whatever you kids say these days.

*exits thread*

Well, that's only what I believe happens to your body, which only carries out the workings of the mind & the spirit.

TOAST PAINT!

I don't believe in the soul, Ian.

One more thing: almost every post I made here has been shown to christians I KNOW. All agreed that "I could say it as long as I didn't drop the Hitler thread-killing bomb" (you know what I mean). So yeah, I say these things. All except one of these christians believe I'm not going to hell because I don't believe their nice stories, and the other one (quotezor)'would give up her place in heaven for me'(unquotezor).

And yes, some of these are American christians, as there IS a big difference to christians here and there. Just though you'd all like to know that

*bows*

Once again, Toast Paint.

*bows*

The way you responded to my first post gave me the impression that you were slamming non christians, just because of the specific bible quotes. Sorry if I misunderstood you. MY grandpa was a babtist preacher for years, mojored in religion and history, and has been all over the world. He's an amazing man. It's great that you've studied worldly religions. Not enough people do these days

I'm not into KN's comments. I just happened to jump into the conjversation at the point in time when we were discussing the issue of God's existance. I did read his comments though, and understand me here that I think he was being a little mean for a freindly conversation.

I never accused you of being an extremeist. I was only using that as an example as to what happens when people are ignorant. Terrible things. tsk tsk...

Just so you know, I respect you very much, simply because every single thing you have said on this thread was polite and intelligent. I respect Christianity very much, just as I respect all other religions. It would be extremely unfair to talk about respecting all religions and not respect christianity. That's just plain illogical.

I understand you disagree with other religions, I'm not challenging that. I'm simply asking why, instead of attempting to save someone, you can't just agree to disagree?

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ya know what? thats a good idea, if you cand aggree, aggreee to dissagree.

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If we do that, then that person can't be saved. We want people to spend eternity in Heaven with us & God.

Well, of course. But it's like Douglas pointed out, and what (to my extreme ire) King Nintendo or whatever he calls himself is demonstrating.

If you push them too hard, they'll only resent and hate you and what you stand for. As you can see, King Nintendo is slipping in phrases that, to me, suggests he despises us in general (notice his attempt to differentiate American Christians from everyone else and hints that the "American" version are bad people ... What the heck?!).

Yes, I can empathize with what he'd feel from seeing people refer to him in third person and saying "he's going to rot in hell." Like I said, I had the opposite situation of people who'd refer to me as "the moron who believes in imaginary friends" and the like, who wanted to "save" me from my "false reality."

You have to look at it from their side of the fence--people like that are not "on the fence," they have a strong faith in their religious beliefs. Even if you feel that they're terribly wrong and are going to suffer for it, you have to at least respect it--like I said, remember the golden rule.

I feel the absolute BEST thing to do is to set an example, in that case. The aggressive, deceptive, and even abrasive evangelism some people perform does the exact OPPOSITE of what evangelists hope to accomplish.

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Everyone should just have their own opinion and not interfere with others'. Let each individual decide what is right for them. Not your parents, not your friends, not your priest, you. I find that too many people are being pushed one way or the other and have never stopped to form their own opinion instead of listening to other people.

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[porplemontage studios]
>>internet entertainment

I'm pretty sure it was in this topic where I posted "actions speak louder than words." You're not going to save anybody by telling them to become Christians. You need to be nice to them and try to do what Jesus would do. That's one reason it's so hard to save people over the internet. They can't see your actions, only your words.

Well not with the magic of webcam!

toastpaint my self.

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From what I've experienced, whenever someone outright attempts to 'save' me or anyone else I know, they always tend to get pushy, not neccisarily aggressive or mean, but somewhat insistant, and that always makes me want to sort of distance myseelf from that person, because I'm afraid they might be pushy in every other subject. I know that most people aren't, but my instinct tells me to stay away.

Instead of setting out to save people, why not simply talk about your religion? It would promote intelligent discussion, make people more enlightened about things they don't know, and it would'nt scare people away. IF someone gets saved in the proccess (And I wouldn't be suprised if more people were) then right on.

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Well...that's what I do. I honestly see everyone's point - heck, I'M Christian, and I don't like it when other Christians are "pushing" religion on others. I get what you guys mean. But also, the respect needs to go both ways. I don't want to be called "stupid", "naive" or "backwards" for believing in what I do (and admittedly, most do not do this), and I, in return, will not call you "heathen", "sinner" or "evil" for what you believe (or don't believe).

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I agree. I would never call you stupid or backwards. But maybe naive just to get you all riled up.

The best missionsaries didn't use force to convert people in other lands to Christianity. They opened up talks about all religions, and had an understanding of the different local religions. Read Achebe's book "Things Fall Apart." He describes the downfall of a Nigerian tribe after missionsaries come to convert them. The first missionary was compassionate, and tried to relate to the locals. Everything was fine until he became ill and went back to England. His replacement was bitter and pushy, and by pushy I mean physically pushing. Well, after this and several other sad events, the main character commits suicide, and well, things fall apart. If a person can't understand another's beliefs, then how doo you expect anyone to listen, let alone respect that person's views?

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SPOILER'D
Yes and i see what you mean. That sounds liek quite an interesting novel. But if it were my choice, religion wouldn't be discussed at all, it allways ends up being akward or someone makes a fight. Keep religion were it belongs people in the courts!
Let the debats ensue!

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IT only gets awkaward and causes a fight when there isn't that mutual respect and acceptance going on that StrongCAnada was talking about. Religion doesn't have to be one of those issues that they fight about on Fox, and it shouldn't be. I wonder if we can put an end to that by putting an end to Tucker Carleson.... *begins evil plotting*

But still, we can all get along if we're not trying to force anyone into something.

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eh, but i don't think we will ever be clear of all those people who try to start a fight. I wonder if we can put an end to that by putting an end to KN.... *begins evil plotting*

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Try me, nubcake

He, I'm posting in this thread o.O

I've watched FOX once. Damn..... government propaganda . Makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside that our networks only really give a crap about showing us as much reality soap re-runs as possible.

e_e

FOX News isn't government propaganda. It's a corporate (not state-run, CORPORATE) network that tries to sell news through sensationalism. People and groups on BOTH sides of the political spectrum have denounced the major networks like FOX. I quite clearly remember people from the right-wing ProtestWarrior organization protesting with signs saying "Don't trust the LIBERAL media!"



KN's sig quote pretty much puts his attitude on display. Ultimately I don't think he would support religious tolerance or "agreeing to disagree." He's the opposite of an aggressive Christian evangelist--he supports the idea of "setting men free" by opposing religion of any kind. :/



Pretty much. Though on the internet, one's actions and words are the same; I actually think that makes it a bit easier if you are looking to lead by example. Though, I actually don't seek to convert others to my line of religious beliefs, save for promotion of religious tolerance, which I've already laid out my reasoning for ... but I feel like rambling again, heh.

It's not that I think people shouldn't discuss their religious beliefs, I just think there should be respect and tolerance for one another's beliefs. It's possible to exhibit that, even if you have a goal of actively promoting conversion to your line of religious beliefs.

There. Done for now.

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Go trev!

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I went on a two year mission for my church. This included knock, knock, knocking on peoples doors... yeah.. yeah.. yeah yeah yeah. And I know that everybody hates it, but I did believe (and still do) that what I had to share would make them happier. (BTW, we did not knock at uncouth times like early in the morning, late at night, or during times that people would obviously haveing dinner) So although I did get some doors slammed in my face, most people were extreemly kind, and even if they weren't interested, they would still invite us in for a glass of water and tell us that they admired what we were doing. I met some very increadible people going door to door and stopping people on the road, which I wouldn't have met otherwise, and their lives were improved and there happiness was increased. So whats wrong with that?

Interesting sidenote, a friend of mine went on a two year mission to KN's beloved home of the Netherlands, where everyone and everything is accepted. And he experienced extreem persecution by those who were so "openminded". Including being thrown in prison, mugged, and getting peppersprayed.

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Not to mention he would've been murdered if he tried converting one of those agressive muslims we have here


Pepper spray? Sweet. This country is coming along fine.



And I don't know this? Of course it is. Corporations just have a bigger interest in Republicans, thus making it unintentional government propaganda.

You'd do well to remember your words. If in the future you claim Americans are racist/prejudiced/what have you, your cheering on Dutch prejudice towards religious groups is going to come back to haunt you. Suffice to say, you've lost any credibility with the pleasure you're showing towards crap like that.



Yep, you don't know it, because you're still claiming it to be government propaganda. If Republicans are protesting the network as being liberally biased, I think that's a sign that it ISN'T.

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About Kingy's sig: has anyone else noticed the inherent irony in it?

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First off, lets define propoganda.


So really anyone who tells a story is delivering propoganda, because they all have a bias.

Most view the big three networks (NBC, ABC, and CBS) as liberally bias, and FOX as Conservatively bias (although FOX has been accused of going more mainstream in the last couple months) So Fox is usually seen as a friend to the administration because they present a conservative bias. But you don't see the other three as being blamed for the same thing when we have a liberal President... What does this mean? I have no clue, but its no secret that the media has an agenda, and doesn't do a good job on giving a balanced view of events, FOX included.

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