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my brother is "athiest". he really isnt, but he says he dosent believe god. the reason i try to get him to stop talking like that is because if there is a heaven, i hope to see him there one day. It would suck if my mom, dogs, and dad were there, but my brother was eternaly suffering in hell.

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I'm Jewish. I respect other peoples freedom of choice. In my opinion, if there is a kind and just G-d, then s/he won't pick and choose who to get into heaven. Maybe serious offenders (like murderers) would have some sort of "less heavenly" heaven. If you don't belive in G-d, that's fine with me!

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Click here if you're a moron!

i like you hrupus!

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TIRES TIRES TIRES

Why not? He picked and chose who he wanted to be his covenant people. You should remember that from studying the Torah.

I wonder what kind of heaven TRMGGWNYNSTMOF* is enjoying right now?

* That Really Mean German Guy Whose Name Your Not Supposed To Mention On Forums.

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You mean Hitler. I am not overly religious, i'm not an atheist though. I'd like to go to heaven and meet and talk to all of the great minds that are up there, you know, Einstein, Gailieo, John Paul II, all those guys.

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AH! You mentioned his name!
You Losed!
Thread = Very Over!

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Hitler in no way shape or form is related to Hilter!..Sorry MP got the best of me.

Anyway, I think a lot of Christians respect the beliefs of others and if they ask, and some one denies, then they understand. I have friends like that who just want me to be good and Christian. No harm done.

What bothers me are the young people who feel it is their deed to bother me at no end until I believe exactly what they do. Some feel that it's ok to harrass me about being the way I am, and to that I say, no sir! A good statement I was once told, "Look, I'm not hating who you are or what your beliefs are. I just know you're wrong and am trying to tell you that." Ouch. That from someone a year younger than me, in all their worldy knowledge.

I think people from all religions do it to everyone else, regardless of someone's individual beliefs. Call it a proximity thing. If you are a Christian living in a predominantly Hindu country, the same will happen to you. Instead of one God, a bajililion. Or in atheism's case, no God to one God. So there. My two cents.

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No, that's only if you COMPARE someone to Hitler. Mentioning his name is ok.

If it sucked, then it wouldn't be heaven... right?

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"You get the Most Annoying Transsexual I've Ever Spoken To award." -The Zephyr Song

In response to the original question, and this applies to all religions, not just Christianity:

If you believed that your religion was the only way to get to heaven and everyone else would go to hell, wouldn't you want all of your friends to go to heaven with you?

That's what they always say or at least your friends do. "I'm doing this because I want to save you." That's very nice and all, but I have my own beliefs. I think my beliefs are right, but you don't see me smathering my thoughts everywhere. After a point, you need to, for lack of a better word, give up and let that person draw their own conclusions whether they agree with your religion or not.

So if a friend of yours is addicted to heroine, you should never intervene and try to save their life? You should just give up and let them destroy themselves?

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Heroine is a bit different than religion, although I see your point. Anyway I said "after a point." It's not like, if you feel strongly enough, you shouldn't try to intervene at all.

Oh no! People being addicted to a female hero!

Learn to spell.

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So, so you think you can tell Heaven from Hell, blue skies from pain. Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail? A smile from a veil? Do you think you can tell?

Only if you promise to learn some manners.

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Excuse you? I don't think Sporky over there was doing anything wrong. It was funny... and I can't believe I didn't notice that. In short, there is nothing ruder than wrongly accusing someone else of being rude.

Um, I think telling someone "learn to spell" is pretty rude.

Oh, come on! If he can tell me to learn to spell, I can tell him to learn some manners. His joke was funny, and if he'd left it at that, I woulda had a chuckle myself.

But all's well. I got even with him on another thread.

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I got an idea:

Toast Paint.

D'OH!

Now, about this painting toast business: I personally think that trying to "convince" people to "save" themselves is a waste of time. Some people just won't budge. For example, me. And, um, that one guy... from Prance... dude... person.

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So, so you think you can tell Heaven from Hell, blue skies from pain. Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail? A smile from a veil? Do you think you can tell?

(_>8^(U)

Well, there does come a point when it will be painfully obvious that the message isn't going to be received. That is why Jesus told his disciples that, if a town did not accept them, they were to wipe the dust off their shoes as a testimony against him. I think I said something very similar to that the last time I answered one of Upsilon's posts.

But where is that point? Hard to say. But you never know. There is a story of a man who hated Christians so much, he used to travel around torturing them and killing them. That man later became known as St. Paul, one of the greatest Christians who ever lived.

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To answer your question: they do this because even though you are less of a person to them (according to SOME interpretations of the bible), you are still a sad sob who is going to burn for all eternity.

I myself welcome christians to try and save me, because this gives ME the oppertunity to debate with them. I will then explain to them how a god would not punish finite sins with infinite punishment (ie: hell). They usually don't get this. Then I ignore them.

I think it makes them feel good or something

Thank you King, for completely misinterpreting our motives and misunderstanding our message.

As for debate, if you intend to do that, you might want to adopt a less condescending tone and try to act like you really care about real discussion. While I have spent a great deal of time discussing religious issues on this thread, I have discovered that I have very little patience with people who think they know more than God about what he will or will not do to those who reject his mercy. I seriously doubt that you will have much more to offer than Dr. Zaius or Upsilon on the topic.

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First off: didn't I say 'SOME interpretations of the bible'? I don't even know what you are, and since the amount of denominations within christianity are many, I might not even have HEARD about your doctrine.

You most certainly know more about your god then me, as I felt like reading into it far enough to deduce that I believe this diety can not exist. I have done the same for islam (well, THAT took me three minutes) and other major religions.

I assume, because you tell me I am wrong, that I shall not by default burn in hell. This pleases me greatly, as you seem to distance yourself from the rabid evengelists who preach of terrible terrible things that will happen to those who do not believe.

I would also like to explain this "infinite punishment for finite sins" thing I just mentioned, so that you may reply. I am sure that a man of your experience can produce a satisfying answer.

Lets hypothesize that god exists. Say I do something that totally pisses god off, and I go to hell when I die. Well, you spend a lot of time in hell. Actually, you spend all eternity there. Isn't that a bit... long of a punishment for a man who lived less then a century? A good and honest god would not stand for such cruelty! Thus I reason I have little to fear of your god, or anyone else's for that matter. If they are the reasonable dieties the more modern of their followers claim they are, I think I can get away with not believing in them.

My beliefs about hell not existing in the first place should be discussed elsewhere.

So, what it boils down to is that christians are only hurting themselves while trying to save souls. Only those who are WILLING will believe you, and those people generally come to YOU, not the other way around.

In a nutshell, sin is doing anything against God. If you're not saved, why do you deserve God's love if you go against Him?

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Interesting. If I were to do anything against god, I would first have to believe in him. Since I don't believe in the feller, I can hardly do anything against him.

Nooow.... scrollin' up a little



This stance once again verifies the massive amount of respect I have for the Jewish religion (even though I know less about it then christianity, apart from this tolerance against those who believe otherwise and the issue of the name of thingieperson (g-d, you know). I had always hoped that ONE DAY, christians would adopt a similar something.

The same applies to me: I don't really care that you believe in something that seems like a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge paradox to me. As long as I am not directly affected by your view of things (ie: biology becomes impossible to teach. SOmething that doesn't actually happen here, but I know United States schools have this very.... strange way of teaching evolution), I will not mind, and occasionally I might challenge you in a religion forum thread. That's all, really.

Back to ... the converting thing!

The people I have tried to sway were all questioning this whole religion thing. It is IMPOSSIBLE to convert an actual christian/jew/muslim/whatever. Only those who aren't sure can be made to consider your ideas. I think those christians who appear so hellbent on saving people should only attempt to save those who don't really know yet. If you attempt to convert somewho who says "I do not believe in god. GO away", then you must cease your activities. But if a person tells you "I am depressed, nobody likes me and I see no point in living", perhaps your religion might be something for this person.

Try it some time.

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Shame on you, this is a debate thread. And I do NOT work at Walmart

Look, I've already said this once. You can't start a debate by saying basically, "I invite debate, but if someone disagrees with me, I just ignore them." How do you expect us to take anything you have to say seriously if you don't intend to take what we have to say seriously (and have pretty much said so)? Seriously.


You misunderstand my earlier post. I was neither challenging you nor accepting your challenge (despite anything my avatar might or might not say on the subject of challenges). I've already said everything I intend to say on this subject. If you'd like to know what I think, read my earlier posts.

You characterize us Christians as intolerant, but so far, I really haven't seen you demonstrate that kind of tolerance you expect toward us.

In short, I do not feel you are inviting conversation so much as you are baiting for argument. At least that is my assessment, based on what I've read so far from you. And I am not interested in argument for the sake of argument. That's why I quit responding to Uspilon almost a month ago, and why I do not intend to respond now.

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This is why religion threads almost never work.