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Reproduction.
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Author:  Alexander [ Fri May 05, 2006 4:06 am ]
Post subject:  Reproduction.
Good afternoon everyone,

My name is Alexander. I am sixteen years old and will be seventeen on August the twenty-third. I am also a girl. And Christian.

My largest fear is growing up. Today is May the third. The day I learned something I wish I had not. In 2003. It has been bothering me ever since. And I hope to try to find a way to make me feel a bit better with this "thing".

On this day I learned the real way that children are created. In order for it to happen, two organisms of opposite gender must join together.

I felt a very cold feeling over my hands after learning this.

One of my most favorite things in this world are children. My dream was to have a little girl to care for.

This almost shatterd any hope I had.

I never could truly accept it. While I knew that it was real in every way, I felt sick thinking of it at all.

And I have felt this way for over three years now.

I am now asking all of you here at the wiki,

To try to answer my question...

What makes it right?

I need this very desperately. So that I might not be quite so frightend with it. So that I might be able to feel a little bit more safe in this world.

Thank you. To all of you.
Author:  PianoManGidley [ Fri May 05, 2006 5:46 am ]
Post subject: 
I'm not sure if I entirely understand what you're asking...but I'll give it a shot. You're asking what makes it right for two beings of the opposite sex to come together to reproduce? Well, nature does. It's just something that has been a truth in existence since before anything of this earth can remember.

It can be a very unfortunate reality sometimes, to realize that there are certain aspects of nature that we cannot control. Perhaps you should step back and try to consider what it is that you want to control in this instance. I believe that our species has neither the ability nor the right to control all aspects of existence--we're not gods, and we should not constantly try to be. Yes, we desire control and power, but there should be a limit.

All good things come with a price--you can't ever really have your cake and eat it, too, in this world. It's something I've been gradually realizing myself, to be honest. Apply it to anything--marriage, Capitalism, Communism, parenthood, good food, music, movies, swimming, learning...everything you enjoy has a price, even if the price is as simple as the time you spend in your limited life doing it.

Perhaps, though, I'm reading your question wrong...perhaps you are so disgusted by the thought of reproductive sex because you are not a heterosexual--you may be a homosexual or asexual. Is this a possibility? Remember--answer and be sure of yourself before you answer me.
Author:  Jerome [ Fri May 05, 2006 11:58 am ]
Post subject: 
Did you really not know until you were 13? How did you think it was done? And what did you think sex was for?

The reason why reproduction has to involve a man and a woman is all down to genetics. Children/offspring are much more likely to survive if they have more than one source for their genes: it means their immune systems are more complex and therefore stronger. Basically, having two parents for a child allows the species to thrive.

I think I've answered your question. "What makes it right?" is a very ambiguous question. Could you repeat it in different wording to clarify it a bit, please?
Author:  Schmelen [ Fri May 05, 2006 1:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
What makes it right?
It does seem terribly wrong, doesn't it? Like some people say oh, it's no big deal, but it does seem like a big deal. But maybe when you have a partner and you get into that kind of stuff, it won't seem so wrong. Try not to worry about it. I don't.
Author:  Joshua [ Fri May 05, 2006 6:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
From a Biblical and Christian standpoint, sex (and then childbirth) are perfectly fine within marriage. There's nothing wrong with it when you're married to her.

God told Adam and Eve to "be fruitful and multiply". It's just a natural part of life.

Just don't rush it, do it when you're ready.
Author:  Didymus [ Fri May 05, 2006 6:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
The best answer I can come up with is that it's the way God made us. "Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh" (Genesis 2:24).
Author:  Alexander [ Sat May 06, 2006 5:09 am ]
Post subject: 
To help clarify:

I meant morally right. Ever since I was little, the idea of being in front of someone without any clothes was out of the question, so how was it that mature married adults would then go off and do this.

To PianoManGidley: I am accually more frightend with it then I am discusted. And I have no plans of going into any other form of love. It goes against my religion and myself.

To Schmelen: I'm always surprised how people seem to make it out as nothing more then eating. And I have tried to forget it for over three years. But every so often it come back to me. That's why I made this topic.

To Joshua: But why is it marriage? Except for marriage, every other way is sinful. How can it be that when two people truly love each other that conception is made right? It doesn't make sence.

And to Didy: God could have made children in over thousands of possibility's. Why this one? If made the first man out of the dust of the earth, then couldn't he have simply used a different way? Was it sin perhaps that caused it, or was that his plan sin or not? Perhaps it was a way of showing trust...

Thank you for all your comments, I hope I helped clarify all this.

Perhaps adoption is the only way for me to have children...

Please continue disscussing.
Author:  StrongRad [ Sat May 06, 2006 5:26 am ]
Post subject: 
Alexander wrote:
To help clarify:

I meant morally right. Ever since I was little, the idea of being in front of someone without any clothes was out of the question, so how was it that mature married adults would then go off and do this.

To PianoManGidley: I am accually more frightend with it then I am discusted. And I have no plans of going into any other form of love. It goes against my religion and myself.

To Schmelen: I'm always surprised how people seem to make it out as nothing more then eating. And I have tried to forget it for over three years. But every so often it come back to me. That's why I made this topic.

To Joshua: But why is it marriage? Except for marriage, every other way is sinful. How can it be that when two people truly love each other that conception is made right? It doesn't make sence.

And to Didy: God could have made children in over thousands of possibility's. Why this one? If made the first man out of the dust of the earth, then couldn't he have simply used a different way? Was it sin perhaps that caused it, or was that his plan sin or not? Perhaps it was a way of showing trust...

Thank you for all your comments, I hope I helped clarify all this.

Perhaps adoption is the only way for me to have children...

Please continue disscussing.

You know, I mean this in as friendly a way as possible, but I think you'll find your feelings on this subject will change.
Author:  Alexander [ Sat May 06, 2006 5:39 am ]
Post subject: 
StrongRad wrote:
Alexander wrote:
To help clarify:

I meant morally right. Ever since I was little, the idea of being in front of someone without any clothes was out of the question, so how was it that mature married adults would then go off and do this.

To PianoManGidley: I am accually more frightend with it then I am discusted. And I have no plans of going into any other form of love. It goes against my religion and myself.

To Schmelen: I'm always surprised how people seem to make it out as nothing more then eating. And I have tried to forget it for over three years. But every so often it come back to me. That's why I made this topic.

To Joshua: But why is it marriage? Except for marriage, every other way is sinful. How can it be that when two people truly love each other that conception is made right? It doesn't make sence.

And to Didy: God could have made children in over thousands of possibility's. Why this one? If made the first man out of the dust of the earth, then couldn't he have simply used a different way? Was it sin perhaps that caused it, or was that his plan sin or not? Perhaps it was a way of showing trust...

Thank you for all your comments, I hope I helped clarify all this.

Perhaps adoption is the only way for me to have children...

Please continue disscussing.

You know, I mean this in as friendly a way as possible, but I think you'll find your feelings on this subject will change.


I am afriad to say this might not be true. Ever since I learned of conception I also lost all love towards girls. It has been over 3 years and 2 days since I last fell in love.

When I learned of conception it hit me harder then anything I had experienced before in my life. I might find something more devestating, but so far this is it.

But I do think I might change. That's why I made this topic, in hope that I might find some hope.

Oh, and StrongRad. I understand how you would say that, you are getting married. So any fear you might have had is gone.

P.S. Best wishes on your wedding day :)
Author:  Schmelen [ Sat May 06, 2006 8:04 am ]
Post subject: 
It surprises me that someone your age can be so horrified at it.
I suppose I can't think of any way you can not be upset about it, it seems to be stopping you from being attracted to people and everything.
It's just that, it's nature. I mean there's no reason to be upset about it, and there's no reason to think about it. It's no big deal.
Author:  The thing in the bag [ Sat May 06, 2006 11:21 am ]
Post subject: 
To Joshua: But why is it marriage? Except for marriage, every other way is sinful. How can it be that when two people truly love each other that conception is made right? It doesn't make sence.

You know, except that it may cause an unwanted pregnancy, I don't really think you can make any arguement for sex being immoral to begin with, without citing god...and god says its perfectly all right in marraige, so what percisely is your problem?

Your using a soley religious arguement to make one point, and then refusing to use another one, to make another.
Author:  Schmelen [ Sat May 06, 2006 12:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
It's because the whole thing grosses him out, he finds it bad and wrong. I don't think you quite got that. And while I'm being mean, please use proper spelling and grammar. Please?

And uh, sorry for being mean, in advance.


I hate being mean...
Author:  Teh Ch8t [ Sat May 06, 2006 1:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
As everyone said; it is part of nature for us to do it. Just think if we didn't reproduce because we thought it was gross? The human species would fall, and we would all kick thy bucket. It's simply put that God wants us to reproduce to keep the species alive...
Author:  PianoManGidley [ Sat May 06, 2006 2:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Alexander wrote:
To help clarify:

I meant morally right. Ever since I was little, the idea of being in front of someone without any clothes was out of the question, so how was it that mature married adults would then go off and do this.


Ah, okay...I think I see the problem. *sighs* I hate it when this happens, too, but to be honest, I've never seen the effects this drastic before.

Now...in our society, where Christian ideals (including some rather archaic ones) still make up a lot of the core philosophies of many people's lives, parents tend to want to have their children to grow up to respect the human body and the act of sex and whatnot. What tends to happen, though--and I fear this sort of generation to generation learning stems all the way back to Puritan days--is that instead of parents teaching their kids to respect the natural body and sex, they end up teaching them to fear it. There is a vast difference between respecting something and fearing it, but I think some parents--too many parents--were just looking for the easy way to make sure their kids didn't go off and have sex at too young an age.

You saying how your childhood was one where anyone seen without clothes on was completely out of the question makes me believe that you really got the raw deal with this. Your parents probably grew up the same way, and their parents before them, etc., perhaps centuries back. The thing you need to realize now is that today's rules are vastly different from the rules of yesteryear. At the risk of sounding entirely cliché, the naked human body is a very beautiful and natural thing, and is nothing to be ashamed of. It's not as if your eyes will burn out of their sockets if you happen to see someone naked. I think your parents were just too scared that you might actually get an erection or something from seeing a naked woman--but that would mean that they fear a process that is as natural and far-dating as us killing other animals to eat the meat off their bones.

Yes, I think that people should have a respect for sex and not go into it light-heartedly or on any sort of short-lived whim. But this does not mean that the only method to keep young hormones at bay is to instill fear in them over years of mental anguish. There are better ways to skin that cat, and I'm truly sorry that you seemed to get the short end of the stick in this instance. I really don't know what to say to fix it other than I hope you realize in time that your parents' rules don't necessarily have to always be completely correct.
Author:  Hi Guys [ Sat May 06, 2006 2:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
^What he said.
Author:  Shippinator Mandy [ Sat May 06, 2006 5:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Alexander, if God thought it was sinful, then why would he have made that the only way to procreate? Think about it.

And why did you find out then? I knew how babies were made when I was a lot younger.
Author:  Dactyl [ Sat May 06, 2006 6:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
When I learned about how babies are made I cried. Heh heh...But I was 7. Now that I'm older, I understand that sex doesn't have to be a gross, gratutious game. It can be the greatest display of love on earth, and you don't have to do it if you don't want to. But you do have to have to do it if you want children. Unless of course you do artificial incemination or adoption. I guess what I'm trying to say is this: sex can be a thing between two people who really really love each other and want to have a baby, OR it can be a disgusting thing you just do for fun and don't think about the love involved.
Author:  Myrtlebeth [ Sun May 07, 2006 5:41 am ]
Post subject: 
Dactyl wrote:
I guess what I'm trying to say is this: sex can be a thing between two people who really really love each other and want to have a baby, OR it can be a disgusting thing you just do for fun and don't think about the love involved.


To Dactyl: Why is it disgusting when it's between a married or otherwise committed couple who want to do it for fun, because it is fun. People wouldn't touch the subject at all if it wasn't fun. What if they don't want children? I don't have/want children, never have, never will, and cannot/don't plan on having any, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying it with my significant other, and we love eachother very much. Love and sex do not always have to equal children, you know.

Heck, sex isn't disgusting at all to me, as long as it's between consenting adults that are doing it responsibly. I'm not attacking you, just respectfully disagreeing and really wondering why you have the opinion that you do. For the record, I do realize I've just opened up a can of worms. But there's no harm in having a dissenting opinion.

To the original poster, alexander: your fear is a legitimate fear. Many people are confused and even discusted of intercourse, and there are many asexual people on this planet (one who abstains from sex for any number of reasons, be it anything from a moralistic viewpoint, psychological opposition to the act, total apathy towards the subject, physical incapability, any reason at all)). There is nothing wrong about how you feel about the situation, but you can't immediately condemn it as being wrong for everyone who does it. It's right for some, it is not right for others, just like all things in life. You still have a lot of growing to do psychologically, and you may one day discover that sex is an activity you would like to experience. Maybe you won't change your mind, and that's Ok, too: choosing whether or not to have sex at any time is a very personal and important decision, and it is ONLY yours to make.

I would suggest talking to a therapist, school counselor or health teacher, or a religious leader, or anyone else you can trust who can give you another view. It may help put things into perspective for you and allow you to approach it from a different angle.
Author:  Didymus [ Sun May 07, 2006 7:47 am ]
Post subject: 
I seem to remember something very similar when I was a teenager. I had known how conception occurred, and I had known about sex, but some time in the 10th grade, I think, I somehow started thinking that it just wasn't right. I don't remember exactly, but I can remember seeing TV shows where couples were portrayed as having sex, and yet somehow not accepting it, denying it, if you will. That all changed when I entered the 11th grade. That was the year I really started leching girls. Not that I still do anymore...

I guess it all boils down to this: in our developing years, maybe its normal for us to struggle with our sexual nature.

Quote:
Your using a soley religious arguement to make one point, and then refusing to use another one, to make another.

TTITB, that's very insensitive of you. You completely miss the point: Alex isn't making an argument at all; he's struggling internally with an issue that's very real to him. Try to show some heart, okay?
Author:  Jerome [ Sun May 07, 2006 11:44 am ]
Post subject: 
PianoManGidley wrote:
Alexander wrote:
To help clarify:

I meant morally right. Ever since I was little, the idea of being in front of someone without any clothes was out of the question, so how was it that mature married adults would then go off and do this.


Ah, okay...I think I see the problem. *sighs* I hate it when this happens, too, but to be honest, I've never seen the effects this drastic before.

Now...in our society, where Christian ideals (including some rather archaic ones) still make up a lot of the core philosophies of many people's lives, parents tend to want to have their children to grow up to respect the human body and the act of sex and whatnot. What tends to happen, though--and I fear this sort of generation to generation learning stems all the way back to Puritan days--is that instead of parents teaching their kids to respect the natural body and sex, they end up teaching them to fear it. There is a vast difference between respecting something and fearing it, but I think some parents--too many parents--were just looking for the easy way to make sure their kids didn't go off and have sex at too young an age.

You saying how your childhood was one where anyone seen without clothes on was completely out of the question makes me believe that you really got the raw deal with this. Your parents probably grew up the same way, and their parents before them, etc., perhaps centuries back. The thing you need to realize now is that today's rules are vastly different from the rules of yesteryear. At the risk of sounding entirely cliché, the naked human body is a very beautiful and natural thing, and is nothing to be ashamed of. It's not as if your eyes will burn out of their sockets if you happen to see someone naked. I think your parents were just too scared that you might actually get an erection or something from seeing a naked woman--but that would mean that they fear a process that is as natural and far-dating as us killing other animals to eat the meat off their bones.

Yes, I think that people should have a respect for sex and not go into it light-heartedly or on any sort of short-lived whim. But this does not mean that the only method to keep young hormones at bay is to instill fear in them over years of mental anguish. There are better ways to skin that cat, and I'm truly sorry that you seemed to get the short end of the stick in this instance. I really don't know what to say to fix it other than I hope you realize in time that your parents' rules don't necessarily have to always be completely correct.

PianoManGidley, you are a very wise man. I would take my hat off to you if I were wearing one.
Author:  Cleverdan [ Sun May 07, 2006 12:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, here goes my insight. I guess, that its okay, becauise, if you find someone you truly love, you known that is who you would want to spend your life with, and have and raise a child with. When real love comes to you, I'm sure you will put aside all of the scared thoughts. Not that adoption is a bad thing, you just shouldn't be afraid of real reproduction (as long as its honest, and you're ready and want a child).
2 of my cousins are adopted, and they are truly family to me. And if you never stop feeling uncomfortable about it, adoption is the way to go.
Author:  Ju Ju Master [ Sun May 07, 2006 3:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
The question is, what exactly about it makes you scared? I still don't really have enough information to help you with it yet.
Author:  StrongRad [ Sun May 07, 2006 6:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Jerome wrote:
PianoManGidley, you are a very wise man. I would take my hat off to you if I were wearing one.

*Slaps a head on Jerome's head*
Now you got no excuse!

I really think that your feelings about this will change Alexander. Trust me, it's something that happens with age. I recall feeling almost identical to you when I was younger. Those feelings did change, though. I mean, if it were wrong, why would it be the way our species continues itsself?
The change in feeling had nothing to do with my being engaged (I actually changed the way I felt LONG before I met Holly).
Author:  Joshua [ Sun May 07, 2006 6:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
StrongRad wrote:
I really think that your feelings about this will change Alexander. Trust me, it's something that happens with age. I recall feeling almost identical to you when I was younger. Those feelings did change, though. I mean, if it were wrong, why would it be the way our species continues itsself?


Ditto. Looks like you'll just have to wait it out... backwards. :homsar:

Actually, there are special people who've gotten a special annointing by God to dedicate their entirely lives to God and His cause (such as Paul the apostle).

However this road will be extremely difficult, or even impossible, to someone who God hasn't taken away the desire to have sex, marry, and/or have children. You sound like you still want to do two of those things.

Sex is a gift God gave to man to help strengthen the bond between a husband and wife. But Holliwood and the rest of world have perverted it so much, it can be difficult for some people to think sex is ever holy.
Author:  Dactyl [ Sun May 07, 2006 6:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Myrtlebeth wrote:
To Dactyl: Why is it disgusting when it's between a married or otherwise committed couple who want to do it for fun, because it is fun. People wouldn't touch the subject at all if it wasn't fun. What if they don't want children? I don't have/want children, never have, never will, and cannot/don't plan on having any, but that doesn't stop me from enjoying it with my significant other, and we love eachother very much. Love and sex do not always have to equal children, you know.


Well I was talking about, like, porn star sex, the kind of sex that you just do. Your kind of sex if fine, if you and your husband really love eachother, than sex is a perfectly acceptable display of love. But I don't really think I know what I'm talking about. Being a virgin, I'm really just going on common sense.
Author:  Stu [ Sun May 07, 2006 8:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dactyl wrote:
I'm really just going on common sense.


As someone who is celebrating his fourth wedding anniversary this very week, allow me to say... In love and marriage common sense rarely makes any sense :)
Author:  Cobalt [ Sun May 07, 2006 11:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
sex is a gift given to us by God. it's necessary for maintaining the species, and it's supposed to feel good. "be fruitful and multiply" is the first commandment given by God to all of humanity, so it seems kind of ungrateful to throw it back in His face.

it sounds like your parents really messed you up. i'm sorry about that. parents can be that way sometimes. maybe you should try seeing a therapist. or, if you really can't get over it, there's always the priesthood, i suppose. sex is kind of overrated, anyway.

good luck, though.
Author:  putitinyourshoe [ Sun May 07, 2006 11:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
i was going to comment but i just want to endorse what Gidley had to say. he basically said everything i was planning on saying so nothing much else besides that i think your instincts will help you to change your feelings about this with time. just dont force it, eh?

EDIT: alexander: to speak directly, be true to yourself, to what your instincts are and no matter what it is, it will be right for you. also, everyone is afraid of sex, whether it is because of moral objections or nervousness. the truth of it is that when you meet the right person the fear will disappear (or at least lessen into simple nervousness) and that is how you know it's the right person.
Author:  Beyond the Grave [ Sun May 07, 2006 11:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
Cobalt wrote:
it sounds like your parents really messed you up. i'm sorry about that. parents can be that way sometimes. maybe you should try seeing a therapist. or, if you really can't get over it, there's always the priesthood, i suppose.
I think Alexander's views will change as he matures into adulthood. I think once he starts going to college, he will see major changes in his views on sex and life in general.

Cobalt wrote:
sex is kind of overrated, anyway.
Surely ye jest.
Author:  Didymus [ Mon May 08, 2006 12:27 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I think Alexander's views will change as he matures into adulthood. I think once he starts going to college, he will see major changes in his views on sex and life in general.

Yes, he probably will. At the very least, he will probably come to grips with his own sexual nature and become more comfortable with it. But it is a very tough conondrum: God created us to be sexual beings, and yet, that sexual nature can also become a source of many problems for us. And it's not so easy to deny who we are.

Alex: I would just say, relax for now. Maybe in time you'll become more comfortable with who you are, and realize that this is not the terrible nasty thing some people view it to be, but rather a beautiful gift from God, meant for our pleasure and fulfillment.

At the same time, I would encourage you to avoid its perverted side, lust (which is when sex is perverted into forms that God never intended, like pr0n and promiscuity). Any good thing from God can be turned to the dark side [/darth vader breathing].

Quote:
Surely ye jest.

I think it is a bit overrated. Or more precisely, our modern society tends to make it into something bigger and more important than it actually is. Just look at cable TV sometime (and I don't even mean the pr0n channels!), and see just how many shows are on that are about nothing but sex. Jerry Springer, Cheaters, Blind Date, Sex in the City. It is getting a bit out of control.
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