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National Anthem in Spanish.
http://forum.hrwiki.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8115		 Page 2 of 3
Author:  racerx_is_alive [ Tue May 02, 2006 9:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Fodder:

A 1919 publication of the National Anthem in Spanish at the Library of Congress

An NPR story about a number of different versions of the National Anthem.

Quote:
The State Department Web site posts four Spanish versions and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice says she's heard rap, country and classical versions. On CBS' Face the Nation (PDF transcript), she says the "individualization of the American national anthem is quite under way."


The National Anthem was sung in Spanish and English at Bush's 1st inaugural.

I have no problem with the National Anthem being sung in spanish. And if it was okay to sing it in spanish earlier, what's the problem now?
Author:  lahimatoa [ Tue May 02, 2006 10:18 pm ]
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*pulls his hair out in frustration for having to answer the same question 3 times in the same thread*
Author:  topofsm [ Wed May 03, 2006 12:46 am ]
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StrongRad wrote:
Santa Zeno wrote:
Whether it's morally right or not doesn't matter, though. They have the right to do it, under the first amendment.

Really, I could only oppose it from an aesthetics point of view. I find Spanish to be an ugly language... even compared to English.

The first amendment is only valid for US citizens, though ;) .
Sorry.. I had to say it.

I'm sorry. I didn't think that all spanish-only-speaking Americans were illegal.
Author:  StrongRad [ Wed May 03, 2006 12:58 am ]
Post subject: 
topofsm wrote:
StrongRad wrote:
Santa Zeno wrote:
Whether it's morally right or not doesn't matter, though. They have the right to do it, under the first amendment.

Really, I could only oppose it from an aesthetics point of view. I find Spanish to be an ugly language... even compared to English.

The first amendment is only valid for US citizens, though ;) .
Sorry.. I had to say it.

I'm sorry. I didn't think that all spanish-only-speaking Americans were illegal.

I didn't say that.
Author:  topofsm [ Wed May 03, 2006 3:29 am ]
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That is what you are implying.

I was being sarcastic in the above thread if you couldn't tell. Hard to tell on these forums.
Author:  StrongRad [ Wed May 03, 2006 3:35 am ]
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topofsm wrote:
That is what you are implying.

I was being sarcastic in the above thread if you couldn't tell. Hard to tell on these forums.

No... I was implying that this is being done on behalf of illegal immigrants, who, aren't covered under the bill of rights.

Of course, if it's being done by people who are legally here, there's nothing I can do about it. (not that there's anything I can do about illegal immigrants anyway).
Author:  Didymus [ Wed May 03, 2006 4:19 pm ]
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StrongRad wrote:
That translates back all strange, though. OMG It's Rushglish!

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO USSR!
Author:  Beyond the Grave [ Wed May 03, 2006 4:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
Didymus wrote:
StrongRad wrote:
That translates back all strange, though. OMG It's Rushglish!

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO USSR!
I think StrongRad left his grammar book in Monterey.

I think the National Anthem should be translated into Spanish. It would be a great way to show our immigrints how much they are valued.
Author:  Dark Grapefruit [ Wed May 03, 2006 4:48 pm ]
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lahimatoa wrote:
Quote:
This... this is actually an issue? Why would anyone be opposed to a translation? I'm honestly baffled.


Please read all previous posts before being baffled.

Quote:
Translating, fine.

Adding whole new ideas to a song and putting it into another language is not translating.


Quote:
I don't like what I've heard about the words being completely rewritten in the translation.


I did, and I didn't understand what you meant. You have to shift words around when you're tranlsating a song in order to keep the meter and rhyme. The French version of O Canada has different lyrics from the English version. But I didn't realize it was deliberately being changed to make a political statement. Sorry.
Author:  racerx_is_alive [ Wed May 03, 2006 5:21 pm ]
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http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5369145

This site has the lyrics to the version that's causing all of the fuss. The 1st verse is about as close as you could expect while matching meter and rhyme etc. The 2nd verse is truly out of the blue. And I noticed that Ian mentioned the remixed version, which features this rap in english between the two verses:
Quote:
It’s time to make a difference the kids, men and the women/Let’s stand for our beliefs, let’s stand for our vision/What about the children los ninos como P-Star
These kids have no parents, cause all of these mean laws.
See this can’t happen, not only about the Latins.
Asians, blacks and whites and all they do is adding
more and more, let’s not start a war
with all these hard workers,
they can’t help where they were born.


I can see where the annoyance is coming from. They haven't translated the national anthem, they've written a new song condemning America's treatment of illegal immigrants to the tune of our national anthem.
Author:  lahimatoa [ Wed May 03, 2006 6:02 pm ]
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Quote:
You have to shift words around when you're tranlsating a song in order to keep the meter and rhyme.


Exactly. I speak a foreign language and am somewhat passable at French, and I completely understand that when translating to another language, especially songs, you cannot do a word-for-word translation. Word changes are needed to make sense and keep meter, etc.

But when you go beyond changing words to changing the entire idea of the song, that's out of line, IMO.
Author:  Badri3211 [ Wed May 03, 2006 10:39 pm ]
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No. It should only be in English
Author:  Exhibit A [ Wed May 03, 2006 10:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Badri3211 wrote:
No. It should only be in English

Why? Do you have any logic or reasons to back that up?
Author:  StrongRad [ Thu May 04, 2006 12:11 am ]
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Exhibit A wrote:
Badri3211 wrote:
No. It should only be in English

Why? Do you have any logic or reasons to back that up?

It's an opinion.
People don't have to back up opinions.

I can't say I totally agree with that opinion, I don't have a problem with a beautiful song in other languages, but badri3211 is more than entitled to their opinion.
Author:  PianoManGidley [ Thu May 04, 2006 12:15 am ]
Post subject: 
StrongRad wrote:
Exhibit A wrote:
Badri3211 wrote:
No. It should only be in English

Why? Do you have any logic or reasons to back that up?

It's an opinion.
People don't have to back up opinions.


No, they don't...but it helps if you can explain the reasoning behind why you think how you do. I mean, imagine if a racist didn't explain his or her reasoning for being prejudice--we might not get to see if that person has any fallacies in their reasoning (which we could in turn correct) that led to such a result.
Author:  Exhibit A [ Thu May 04, 2006 12:23 am ]
Post subject: 
StrongRad wrote:
Exhibit A wrote:
Badri3211 wrote:
No. It should only be in English

Why? Do you have any logic or reasons to back that up?

It's an opinion.
People don't have to back up opinions.

I can't say I totally agree with that opinion, I don't have a problem with a beautiful song in other languages, but badri3211 is more than entitled to their opinion.

I know that, my point there must be some reason he has that opinion, and I want to know what it is. I just don't see what he could have against the anthem being translated.
Author:  Badri3211 [ Thu May 04, 2006 1:05 am ]
Post subject: 
StrongRad wrote:
Exhibit A wrote:
Badri3211 wrote:
No. It should only be in English

Why? Do you have any logic or reasons to back that up?

It's an opinion.
People don't have to back up opinions.

I can't say I totally agree with that opinion, I don't have a problem with a beautiful song in other languages, but badri3211 is more than entitled to their opinion.


I agree with StrongRad in this one. Opinions do not necessarily have to be explained. Only facts and theories needed to be explained. ;)
Author:  Exhibit A [ Thu May 04, 2006 1:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Badri3211 wrote:
StrongRad wrote:
Exhibit A wrote:
Badri3211 wrote:
No. It should only be in English

Why? Do you have any logic or reasons to back that up?

It's an opinion.
People don't have to back up opinions.

I can't say I totally agree with that opinion, I don't have a problem with a beautiful song in other languages, but badri3211 is more than entitled to their opinion.


I agree with StrongRad in this one. Opinions do not necessarily have to be explained. Only facts and theories needed to be explained. ;)

I would at least like to know if there is any actual reason you think the Anthem should not be translated. I just want to understand your position.
Author:  Stu [ Thu May 04, 2006 1:19 am ]
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I tend to feel that the national anthem of any country changes when it is translated from it's original tongue. For example, certain songs are beautiful when sung in French, but as soon as you figure out the English translation they are just ho-hum. I don't really see the need to do something like this for something like the national anthem. I don't mind that other things be translated (Pledge of Allegiance, Constitituion, etc...)

I do stand with Lahi here though on the problem with adding lyrics or changing the theme of the lyrics. I also don't think that we are the only two that feel that way.
Author:  StrongRad [ Thu May 04, 2006 1:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Stu wrote:
I also don't think that we are the only two that feel that way.

You're not the only one.

I'm just sick of being called a racist for feeling that way. (nobody here is doing that, but I work with some REALLY liberal people)
Author:  PianoManGidley [ Thu May 04, 2006 1:33 am ]
Post subject: 
Stu wrote:
I tend to feel that the national anthem of any country changes when it is translated from it's original tongue. For example, certain songs are beautiful when sung in French, but as soon as you figure out the English translation they are just ho-hum. I don't really see the need to do something like this for something like the national anthem. I don't mind that other things be translated (Pledge of Allegiance, Constitituion, etc...)


This is true, even if you speak a second language fluently. The reason is because there is so much more to language than just a spoken word--the ideas, both denotative and connotative, can change between languages when translating. Connotative meanings can have a lot heavier impact on a person or society than denotative meanings, and such connotations are generally only learned through the life-long process of sociolization in one's own culture.

Plus, I even have a theory that goes so far as to suggest that the phonetics of words and languages have some sort of subliminal impact on people, much more than we might give credit for.
Author:  Acekirby [ Thu May 04, 2006 9:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have no problem with a basic translation of it at all.

I do have a problem with the meaning of the song being changed through changed lyrics.
Author:  Dactyl [ Thu May 04, 2006 10:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
StrongRad wrote:
Santa Zeno wrote:
Whether it's morally right or not doesn't matter, though. They have the right to do it, under the first amendment.

Really, I could only oppose it from an aesthetics point of view. I find Spanish to be an ugly language... even compared to English.

The first amendment is only valid for US citizens, though ;) .
Sorry.. I had to say it.


Oooooohhh...that's right. Dag, yo. Anyway, I think they don't have to do that one version critisizing the immagration policy. That's dumb and sort of disrespectful. Why would you record a song with anthem of a country and then critisize it's veiws? Couldn't you just do the 2 seperatley? Maybe on the same album.
Author:  ButtdanceHR [ Fri May 05, 2006 4:44 am ]
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They are living in America where the choose to live. They should follow by Americas rules. Whatever law they pass, they must follow.

Why should we translate if this is America and the main language is English. It doesn't make any sense to me.
Author:  Exhibit A [ Fri May 05, 2006 4:51 am ]
Post subject: 
ButtdanceHR wrote:
They are living in America where the choose to live. They should follow by Americas rules. Whatever law they pass, they must follow.

Why should we translate if this is America and the main language is English. It doesn't make any sense to me.

Maybe because there are people who don't speak English who are proud of this country?

This has nothing to do with any laws or rules of the country. Remember, the USA doesn't have an official language.
Author:  PianoManGidley [ Fri May 05, 2006 5:49 am ]
Post subject: 
ButtdanceHR wrote:
They are living in America where the choose to live. They should follow by Americas rules. Whatever law they pass, they must follow.


Henry David Thoreau might disagree with you there, with his ideas of civil disobedience. If you whole-heartedly disagree with a certain law that was passed, Thoreau would say to not abide by it--even if it means spending time in jail for it--because you're doing what you believe to be morally right instead of just blindly following a law that was passed by people in power in your vast country that you may well disagree with.
Author:  Hi Guys [ Fri May 05, 2006 4:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
I seriously don't care. If we all wanted to sing the National Anthem in its original language, we should sing it in Cherokee.
Author:  PianoManGidley [ Fri May 05, 2006 6:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi Guys wrote:
I seriously don't care. If we all wanted to sing the National Anthem in its original language, we should sing it in Cherokee.


Umm...I thought the original text was in English. I know you're trying to make a point about Native Americans...but even they migrated to this continent--even if it was hundreds or thousands of years before anyone else. So we're all migrants in some form or another--except for anyone whose geneology has ever remained strictly in the same place where humans first came to be.

And besides...Cherokees aren't the only tribe of Native Americans ever...>>
Author:  Hi Guys [ Fri May 05, 2006 7:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
PianoManGidley wrote:
Hi Guys wrote:
I seriously don't care. If we all wanted to sing the National Anthem in its original language, we should sing it in Cherokee.


Umm...I thought the original text was in English. I know you're trying to make a point about Native Americans...but even they migrated to this continent--even if it was hundreds or thousands of years before anyone else. So we're all migrants in some form or another--except for anyone whose geneology has ever remained strictly in the same place where humans first came to be.

And besides...Cherokees aren't the only tribe of Native Americans ever...>>


Yeah, but you get the point...
Author:  Didymus [ Fri May 05, 2006 7:04 pm ]
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Hey! Our ancestors raped, murdered, and pillaged this land from them fair and square!
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