A question concerning Rasputin, or rather, his beliefs

Simon Zeno · **Posted:** Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:00 am

Grigori Rasputin, the creepy mystic dude, was at some point in his life part of a strange sect of the Russian Orthodox church called the Khlysts. This group believed that one could only commune with God by sinning and then repenting. Thus, they would knowingly commit sins, often in the form of orgies, and then pray for forgiveness in order to be closer to God.

My question to those Christians among you is this: Is this right? By your beliefs, is sinning in order to be closer to God justified? Or were these Russians just crazy?

Capt. Ido Nos · **Posted:** Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:10 am

I'm not sure about crazy, although that is a strong possibility, but they are definitely mistaken.

I can't find the reference just yet (I'll edit when I do, or Didy can help me on this) but there is a letter by Paul that discusses this train of thought. Simply stated, he asks that if we receive grace by committing a sin, should we sin for the sake of getting more grace? The answer is no, we should not. In fact, we should sin less, as once one truly becomes a believer there is a change of heart from the sin nature of the human condition to a new self that desires to please and honor God.

sb_enail.com · **Posted:** Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:37 am

Sinning for salvation is like ****ing for abstinence. Rasputin was crazy weird. Plus, he looks like that guy from the Skittles comercials with the prehensile beard.

Alberto · **Posted:** Tue Mar 28, 2006 7:21 am

damninteresting.com wrote:

Rasputin was offered pastries and wine which he initially refused. This somewhat threw the Prince into a panic. He told the other conspirators (who were waiting in another room off the stairs), "…that animal is not eating or drinking." When Felix returned, however, Rasputin had opened the wine and began to drink. After drinking a couple of glasses, he showed no signs of having been poisoned. After a while, he may have started feeling something because he asked for tea. Then stood, walked around the room, then asked Felix to play the guitar and sing. For two hours this "nightmare" continued.

When Felix checked in with is co-conspirators next, he was pale. He said that Rasputin had eaten and drank the poisoned food and still nothing had happened. When he again returned to his guest, the only signs of the poison affecting him was that he was burping and had some excessive salivation. Nerves were beginning to give way. Felix decided to end it. He took a revolver and while Rasputin was looking at a fancy cross, shot him in the back. Rasputin gave a bestial cry and fell to the floor.

Dimitry and the doctor allegedly went for the car and to destroy Rasputin's coat and boots (they were not destroyed). In the meantime, Felix wanted to see Rasputin again, so he went and took another look. The body was still warm with small drops of blood coming from the wound. He lifted the body by the shirt and shook it and dropped it again to the floor. He then noticed that the left eye started to open, then the right eye. Suddenly the Rasputin leapt from the floor with a "devil's look" in his eyes and a wild cry and attacked Felix. Felix struggled for a moment and broke free. Rasputin fell again to the floor.

The prince ran, calling for the revolver again. When they returned, Rasputin was crawling up the stairs. He made it out and began to run through the snow near the fence crying, "Felix, Felix…I'll tell everything to the tsarina!" In a panic, Purishkevich missed twice with the revolver, then biting himself on the wrist to make himself concentrate, shot Rasputin in the back. Then again in the head. Rasputin fell, holding his head.

Felix began to beat Rasputin with a rubber truncheon. Finally Purishkevich had him pulled off the body. They took the body back into the house and discovered that Rasputin was still alive. He wheezed with each breath and was able to look at them through one eye. Finally Dimitry and the doctor returned. The body was wrapped in a cloth and taken by car to the Niva river and dumped in.

Wow, he sure was one tough guy to kill.
But yeah, the guy was a bit of a loony, interesting, but a loony,
Funny how tsarina Alexandra could have so much trust it such a blatant wirdo.

Didymus · **Posted:** Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:05 pm

Santa Zeno wrote:

Grigori Rasputin, the creepy mystic dude, was at some point in his life part of a strange sect of the Russian Orthodox church called the Khlysts. This group believed that one could only commune with God by sinning and then repenting. Thus, they would knowingly commit sins, often in the form of orgies, and then pray for forgiveness in order to be closer to God.

My question to those Christians among you is this: Is this right? By your beliefs, is sinning in order to be closer to God justified? Or were these Russians just crazy?

No, it is not right.

St. Paul wrote:

What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life (Romans 6).

We Christians have the grace of forgiveness of sins, but this grace does not permit us to simply live however we wish. This notion is called "antinomianism" and is strictly condemned by orthodox Christians. It is also sometimes called "cheap grace," because it cheapens the sacrifice our Lord made for us through the cross.

St. Paul wrote:

Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. 2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will (Romans 12).

God calls us to live holy lives. This does not mean we will never sin, or that there's no forgiveness available for those who turn back to the cross. But it does mean that we are not to continue living in our sins.

Douglas · **Posted:** Tue Mar 28, 2006 3:13 pm

I agree with everything Didymus said; if we continue to sin just like everyone else after being supposedly saved, you have to question whether your salvation is genuine in the first place.

alberto wrote:

Some stuff about Rasputin being hard to kill

In my opinion, Rasputin was possessed... there's not any human way he could have survived a shot to the head, and being smashed with a truncheon.

Tintin · **Posted:** Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:45 am

Since Rasputin dabbled heavily in the occult and that gave him special powers, I think there was a big chance he was possessed. I'm not saying all who do witchcraft are possessed but I don't suggest dabbling in the occult anyway. It's dangerous and sooner or later you'll learn the spirits are controlling you, not vice versa.

Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest · **Posted:** Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:39 am

Douglas wrote:

alberto wrote:

Some stuff about Rasputin being hard to kill

In my opinion, Rasputin was possessed... there's not any human way he could have survived a shot to the head, and being smashed with a truncheon.

its easy, the poison he was slipped was in a large dose, his body couldnt handle that much of it, and he threw it up. as for the shot, he got shot in the back, but missed anything vital, but the pain knocked him out for a few minutes. as for the other two shots, he got shot in the back again, but Dearley missed everything, and for the shot in the head, the bullet probably was of low enough power to just wedge itslef into his Skull. he survived the beating from felix, he passed out for a bit more, then he woke up caughing and wheezing, so they hit him over the head again, shoved him in a cloth and thrown in the river, where before he became submerged, Awoke and tried to fight his way out of the bag. he drowned and had finally died. thats my theory. find the flaws, write them down, and put it down on my desk by tomarrow morning.

Simon Zeno · **Posted:** Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:18 pm

Douglas wrote:

I agree with everything Didymus said; if we continue to sin just like everyone else after being supposedly saved, you have to question whether your salvation is genuine in the first place.

alberto wrote:

Some stuff about Rasputin being hard to kill

In my opinion, Rasputin was possessed... there's not any human way he could have survived a shot to the head, and being smashed with a truncheon.

Actually, most modern forensic analysis shows that almost that entire story is false.

putitinyourshoe · **Posted:** Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:04 pm

Douglas wrote:

In my opinion, Rasputin was possessed... there's not any human way he could have survived a shot to the head, and being smashed with a truncheon.

i like the point that the entire thing is probably false, lots of legends make their way into the realm of "fact"

but besides that, a lot of people survive shots to the head or other strange places. the human body can be an odd thing. it also depends on whether it was a graze to the head and whatnot. i'm sure there are people in history who have lived through worse before dying.

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