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 Post subject: What Is A Soul?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:00 am 
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This question (or set of questions) came about when I debated with my friend that I believe that all animals have souls, whereas he (who is ironically an Atheist) believes that only humans have souls. So, I've been curious to hear differing peoples' opinions on this:

What is a soul? How do you define the concept of a "soul"? What are the criteria that an object must meet to be considered of having a soul?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:05 am 
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I believe that everything has a soul, but only humans have true free will. This enables us to be our own person, and separates us from animals.

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 Post subject: Re: What Is A Soul?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 3:40 am 
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PianoManGidley wrote:
What is a soul? How do you define the concept of a "soul"? What are the criteria that an object must meet to be considered of having a soul?


I think from most people's perspective, being an object probably immediately disqualifies anything from being a soul.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:08 am 
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I think anything living has a soul. A soul, too me, is like...Batteries...and you're body is like the...Battery operated thing...

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:22 am 
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A soul is just like... what seperates us from others and why we are who we are and not someone else.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:48 am 
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ahh.. the age olde question of the soul...
What is a soul? to many people, a soul is something that can be given up for any reason at all. to some people, a Soul is something you earn. to many people, you dont own a soul, god does, and you get it once you die, for it to be judged to where it should go.
to me? we own our souls, and over time the soul gets old, and withers away, where you are left in the position of death.

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 Post subject: Re: What Is A Soul?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:56 am 
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InterruptorJones wrote:
PianoManGidley wrote:
What is a soul? How do you define the concept of a "soul"? What are the criteria that an object must meet to be considered of having a soul?


I think from most people's perspective, being an object probably immediately disqualifies anything from being a soul.


Granted, but I know that some beliefs hold that even rocks and mountains have their own souls, so I was trying to sound all-inclusive by saying "object" instead of "creature" or "person." Essentially, when I said "objects," I wasn't trying to refer simply to inanimate things...I meant nouns, sans places or ideas.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:04 am 
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ed 'lim' smilde wrote:
A soul is just like... what seperates us from others and why we are who we are and not someone else.


Like synapses in your brain?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:22 pm 
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Jello B. wrote:
Like synapses in your brain?


So you have a Materialist belief, like that of Paul Churchland? "There is no God, there is no 'soul,' this can all be explained by how the brain itself works?"

I guess I shouldn't be surprised by this, but given 60% of scientists have religious beliefs of varying flags, it appears they're lukewarm receptive to the idea of a soul as well. That is to say, the concept of a soul isn't snorted at by most of the scientific community (like ghosts are), but probably about half and half.

Of course, I do believe in the concept of a soul--the base, hardline explanation is that it is a part of that which lives, that survives the body's death.

I say 'base' and 'hardline' because beyond that, concepts of the soul diverge. For example, I personally believe each soul is unique to a person--but there's other ideas that what we consider our soul is just part of a greater unified conciousness. (Which spooks me.)

While not hard proof perse, the following is something to consider. A while back (not sure when this was), a patient had to undergo surgery for a brain aneurysm. They put her under, and used a (then) new and risky method of operation by draining the blood from her brain--she was clinically dead, AND brain dead. No brain waves detected. So for all intents and purposes, she was gone to the world.

Yet later she was able to perfectly describe things used in the surgery she had never seen before--a bone saw, for instance. She was also able to describe things the neurologists were doing while brain dead.

See, normally I don't give NDEs and other out of body experiences much thought--scientists have been able to invoke similar feelings in people while they're concious through electrical/magnetic stimulation to the brain. Typically they're probably natural burps in the mind as it were--but how can you explain away this one?

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 Post subject: Re: What Is A Soul?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:44 pm 
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PianoManGidley wrote:
Granted, but I know that some beliefs hold that even rocks and mountains have their own souls, so I was trying to sound all-inclusive by saying "object" instead of "creature" or "person."


Actually, re-reading your original post I realize that I just failed Reading Comprehension 101. My bad. Carry on.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:20 pm 
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Actually, the Hebrew word for "soul", nephesh, literally means "life" or "breath", and according to the Old Testament, animals can have nephesh. So I have no problem at all with attributing souls to animals.

However, there is something distinctly unique to human beings, in that we bear God's own image (and God has born ours in his Incarnation). This makes us unique within the scheme of creation.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:50 pm 
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Mr.KISS wrote:
I think anything living has a soul. A soul, too me, is like...Batteries...and you're body is like the...Battery operated thing...

Believe it or not, that explination dumbed it down to my level. Good job!

I think that all living things have souls as well. A soul is like the driving force in a creature's body, and when the body dies for good, the soul leaves the body. A soul, to me, means whatever the creature is has life.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:35 pm 
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Acekirby wrote:
A soul is like the driving force in a creature's body, and when the body dies for good, the soul leaves the body.
I have one question though - what about when the body dies (brain dead) and then comes back to life? It's happened in animals.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:43 pm 
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Didymus wrote:
Actually, the Hebrew word for "soul", nephesh, literally means "life" or "breath", and according to the Old Testament, animals can have nephesh. So I have no problem at all with attributing souls to animals.

However, there is something distinctly unique to human beings, in that we bear God's own image (and God has born ours in his Incarnation). This makes us unique within the scheme of creation.


true, but nefesh is only one level of what is, basically, a multi-levelled thing. everything that's alive has nefesh, or the animal soul. humans and animals. the next highest level is "ruach," or breath, which connects the lower nefesh to the even higher level of "neshama," which is the human part of the soul, and the highest part that still has a relationship to the body.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:47 pm 
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ed 'lim' smilde wrote:
Acekirby wrote:
A soul is like the driving force in a creature's body, and when the body dies for good, the soul leaves the body.
I have one question though - what about when the body dies (brain dead) and then comes back to life? It's happened in animals.

I knew someone would bring this up. And the truth is, I don't really know. I think the person's soul returns to their body. Or, it doesn't leave the body until the person is supposed to die for good- God knows when you're going to kick the bucket for real.

That's just my idea, though.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:38 am 
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I believe in a soul. It's kind of in here. And when you sneeze, that's your soul trying to escape. Saying "God bless you" crams it back in! And it doesn't matter if you die in a submarine at the bottom of the ocean. It can swim. It's even got wheels in case you die in the desert and it has to drive to the cemetery!

:P

Seriously, I don't like religion, but you have to have a soul, right? I mean, you can't not have a soul! Souls are the very basis of...... um...... stuff.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:55 am 
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A soul is kinda like your consconce, or however you spell it. It's your inner person.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:48 am 
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This is an amazing question. I love it. However, it's really hard to answer. I have this idea in my head, about what I soul is, but it's so hard to verbalize what I am thinking.

I've always thought of a soul as something deep within yourself. It kind of exists on a more spiritual plain. Your soul guides you through life, helping you make decisions, and is there for you when you truely need it. When you talk to yourself in your head, you're talking to your soul. Your soul also knows when you've met that special someone, and it lets you know. That's called love. Hence...soulmates. When you die, your body ceases to exist, but your soul lives on forever.

Saaaappy. But its what I believe

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:21 am 
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Sexy_Sakura wrote:
This is an amazing question. I love it. However, it's really hard to answer. I have this idea in my head, about what I soul is, but it's so hard to verbalize what I am thinking.

I've always thought of a soul as something deep within yourself. It kind of exists on a more spiritual plain. Your soul guides you through life, helping you make decisions, and is there for you when you truely need it. When you talk to yourself in your head, you're talking to your soul. Your soul also knows when you've met that special someone, and it lets you know. That's called love. Hence...soulmates. When you die, your body ceases to exist, but your soul lives on forever.

Saaaappy. But its what I believe


Awesome. im gonna hail you for that.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:18 am 
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"Soul" is another (shorter) word for "consciousness". It's the sum total of your personality, memories and senses.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:11 am 
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I appreciate all the replies, people...could I ask, though, that if you can, be as detailed as you can (or dare to be) in your definitions? I mean...a lot of posts, from what I can tell so far, don't really answer that final question of mine from the initial post--what criteria must be met to have a soul? Or, to put it another way, what sort of creatures or objects have souls? Do only humans have souls?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 5:09 am 
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Hmmm, for some reason I disagree with animals having souls. I think a soul must be able to comprehend the universe and to know God, and animals can't really do that.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:37 am 
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ed 'lim' smilde wrote:
Hmmm, for some reason I disagree with animals having souls. I think a soul must be able to comprehend the universe and to know God, and animals can't really do that.


I'm curious - what evidence do you have to go by to say for sure animals can't comprehend the universe and God? I'm sure they don't comprehend these ideas in quite the same fashion we do, but I have a feeling that, in their own way, they sometimes ponder why they're on Earth and what else is out there. Heck, for all we know they could have mental superpowers that help them understand secrets of the universe we're not even aware of.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:30 am 
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ed 'lim' smilde wrote:
Acekirby wrote:
A soul is like the driving force in a creature's body, and when the body dies for good, the soul leaves the body.
I have one question though - what about when the body dies (brain dead) and then comes back to life? It's happened in animals.


Well, maybe god just knows when the thing in question is supposed to die and doesn't do anything until it's that time.

(That made me feel goofy).

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 6:38 pm 
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This site wrote:

f. Sometimes it is claimed that when people die, their body loses 21 grams of weight. This loss is supposed to be the weight of their soul, which is liberated from their body by death. (This is a line from the movie “21 Grams.”) If we assume that the released soul exists in the form of energy, the energy in question would be the equivalent of 451.5 kilotons of TNT (since, as we have seen, each gram of matter, converted to energy, is equivalent to 21.5 kilotons of TNT ). In other words, each time a Daytonian died (assuming that he hadn’t previously sold his soul) the resulting release of energy would pretty much flatten Montgomery County.


Interesting...

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:55 pm 
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StrongRad wrote:
This site wrote:

f. Sometimes it is claimed that when people die, their body loses 21 grams of weight. This loss is supposed to be the weight of their soul, which is liberated from their body by death. (This is a line from the movie “21 Grams.”) If we assume that the released soul exists in the form of energy, the energy in question would be the equivalent of 451.5 kilotons of TNT (since, as we have seen, each gram of matter, converted to energy, is equivalent to 21.5 kilotons of TNT ). In other words, each time a Daytonian died (assuming that he hadn’t previously sold his soul) the resulting release of energy would pretty much flatten Montgomery County.


Interesting...

Too bad it's a load of bollocks. The human body does NOT lose 21 grams when it dies. That's just an urban myth.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:12 pm 
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Too bad it's a load of bollocks. The human body does NOT lose 21 grams when it dies. That's just an urban myth.


At least we see where they got the idea for the Spirit Bomb in DBZ from--

If we assume that the released soul exists in the form of energy, the energy in question would be the equivalent of 451.5 kilotons of TNT (since, as we have seen, each gram of matter, converted to energy, is equivalent to 21.5 kilotons of TNT ). In other words, each time a Daytonian died (assuming that he hadn’t previously sold his soul) the resulting release of energy would pretty much flatten Montgomery County.

Something I plan to expound on later when I'm not drowning in Accounting Financial exams on bonds and journalizing taxes--do souls have an observable link to quantum physics theories?

There's a tenative idea I've been thinking on (in the Terminator fashion, a wild idea that's not fully explained, merely posited) for AU concerning that. But like I said, I'll spill the beans later.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:23 pm 
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ed 'lim' smilde wrote:
Hmmm, for some reason I disagree with animals having souls. I think a soul must be able to comprehend the universe and to know God, and animals can't really do that.

Can you know that with absolute certainty? Simple observation of animals will show that they are at least somewhat aware of the universe around them. As for whether they are aware of God...there was Balaam's mule.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:18 am 
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Trev-MUN wrote:
Something I plan to expound on later when I'm not drowning in Accounting Financial exams on bonds and journalizing taxes--do souls have an observable link to quantum physics theories?


Heh...have you watched "What the Bleep Do We Know?" If not, it's an interesting and thought-provoking film for those unaware of the possbilities that quantum physics proffers.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:46 am 
Tricky question, I would have to say that its the essence of a living thing.


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