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Christian Music
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Author:  seamusz [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:49 pm ]
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Personally, I am not a big fan of most Christian rock and Contemporary Christian music in general. Some I like, but in general I gravitate towards music that I feel a sense of honesty and non-pretence in. Christian rock just seems to be full of people who want to capitalize on others belief in Christ.
Author:  DeathlyPallor [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:55 pm ]
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seamusz wrote:
Christian rock just seems to be full of people who want to capitalize on others belief in Christ.


Oddly enough, a south park episode covers that. This is very true, though.

And that quote from king of the hill is very true.

Also, I honestly think that if you have musical talent, that you shouldn't waste it on a subject that gets plenty of attention on it's own. Plus... weren't they saying a while back that rock n' roll was the devil's music?

Which brings me to my next point... Christian Metal... just... what the crap?! What a laughably ridiculous concept. Something most Christian activist groups have been fighting... becoming christian? "I bang my head on the wall for you, Jesus??" Something about this makes me laugh incredibly hard... well... maybe because it's pathetic.
Author:  seamusz [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:41 pm ]
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Ok... as much as I don't car for Cont. Christian music... Im gonna take issue with a couple of things.

DeathlyPallor wrote:
Also, I honestly think that if you have musical talent, that you shouldn't waste it on a subject that gets plenty of attention on it's own. Plus... weren't they saying a while back that rock n' roll was the devil's music?


First of all, when you say that "they" were calling R&R devil's music, you seem to be refering to Christians in general. I would say that Christians in general don't think that R&R is devil's music. It seems to me that the same people that would generalize that all of one music genre is of the devil are the same type of people that would generalize that all Christians would be united in such a statement.

Second, since when is coverage of a topic reason to stop making music about it?

Quote:
Which brings me to my next point... Christian Metal... just... what the crap?! What a laughably ridiculous concept. Something most Christian activist groups have been fighting... becoming christian? "I bang my head on the wall for you, Jesus??" Something about this makes me laugh incredibly hard... well... maybe because it's pathetic.


I'm with you here! I think there should definately be regulations instated saying which topics you can and which topics you can't incorporate into a specific genre. [/sarcasm]

Really though, if someone relates to metal, and they also relate to Christ, what is wrong with putting them togetner? Personally, it wouldn't be my bag, but if it helps someone improve their relationship with God, why not?
Author:  DeathlyPallor [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:48 pm ]
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Quote:
First of all, when you say that "they" were calling R&R devil's music, you seem to be refering to Christians in general.


I was also speaking of a particular time period. I just found it strange that the very same people that used to condemn it are utilizing it... wow... very similar situation to what they've been doing to other things for last millenium!

Quote:
Second, since when is coverage of a topic reason to stop making music about it?


I was saying so because writing music on only Christ alone is limiting and counter to what self-expression is. Sure, it can be an expression of their faith, but how many times can you say the same thing?

When you write music about depressing subjects, it can be drawn off of many individual experiences and personal views, and never the same twice. Whereas writing about faith is unilateral and ultimately constraining.

Quote:
Really though, if someone relates to metal, and they also relate to Christ, what is wrong with putting them togetner? Personally, it wouldn't be my bag, but if it helps someone improve their relationship with God, why not?


I'm not saying that they can't... but that it's incredibly amusing to listen to them try!
Author:  Didymus [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:01 pm ]
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Quote:
I was saying so because writing music on only Christ alone is limiting and counter to what self-expression is. Sure, it can be an expression of their faith, but how many times can you say the same thing?

When you write music about depressing subjects, it can be drawn off of many individual experiences and personal views, and never the same twice. Whereas writing about faith is unilateral and ultimately constraining.


I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that, perhaps one thing that concerns you, is that contemporary Christian music seems to promote a kind of "Happy Thoughts" theology. If so, I would agree with you. It seems that most of the really popular Christian songs are about how Jesus makes us happy. Never mind that the vast majority of what it means to be Christian is about bearing a Cross (i.e., suffering on account of Christ). Never mind that even the Psalmists often expressed despair and rage and other "negative" emotions. That's partly why I gravitate to the Sacred Classical composers like Arvo Part. I feel like they are much better to express a wide range of emotional experience within the Christian life.
Author:  seamusz [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:57 pm ]
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DeathlyPallor wrote:
I was also speaking of a particular time period. I just found it strange that the very same people that used to condemn it are utilizing it... wow... very similar situation to what they've been doing to other things for last millenium!


I was saying that it not the same people though, Youre speaking of a minority of people that get a lot of press time.

Quote:
I was saying so because writing music on only Christ alone is limiting and counter to what self-expression is. Sure, it can be an expression of their faith, but how many times can you say the same thing?

When you write music about depressing subjects, it can be drawn off of many individual experiences and personal views, and never the same twice. Whereas writing about faith is unilateral and ultimately constraining.


I think the problem here is that since you don't have a belief in Christ, you cannot understand how liberating a belief in Him can be. No two conversions are the same. In scripture there are all sorts of examples of conversion making people sing and do all sorts of things to express how their conversion makes them feel. I'm not surprised that you would Christianity as confining, but take it from a majority of Christians that this belief is quite liberating. For example, Christ had been dead for 1700 years when Handel wrote his masterpiece, The Messiah. If you count up all the sermons and expressions of fath up till that time, you could probably come to the same conclusion. And then you take the fact that all the lyrics to The Messiah are direct quotes from the Bible, all Handel did was put these key scriptures to music, and you have one of the most moving pieces of music ever written.

Liberation of your spirit is what Christ is all about... imho.
Author:  IantheGecko [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:04 pm ]
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Didymus wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that, perhaps one thing that concerns you, is that contemporary Christian music seems to promote a kind of "Happy Thoughts" theology. If so, I would agree with you.
Not necessarily, Didy. There are Christian bands with a "Darker" sound, such as Skillet, Pillar, Project 86, & Kutless. "Open Wounds" by Skillet's a pretty darn good song.
Author:  DeathlyPallor [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:22 pm ]
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Quote:
I think the problem here is that since you don't have a belief in Christ, you cannot understand how liberating a belief in Him can be. No two conversions are the same. In scripture there are all sorts of examples of conversion making people sing and do all sorts of things to express how their conversion makes them feel. I'm not surprised that you would Christianity as confining, but take it from a majority of Christians that this belief is quite liberating. For example, Christ had been dead for 1700 years when Handel wrote his masterpiece, The Messiah.


Not his best work... but of note admittingly.


Quote:
If you count up all the sermons and expressions of fath up till that time, you could probably come to the same conclusion. And then you take the fact that all the lyrics to The Messiah are direct quotes from the Bible, all Handel did was put these key scriptures to music, and you have one of the most moving pieces of music ever written.

Liberation of your spirit is what Christ is all about... imho.


How dare you say I don't know and disparage the faith I hold to myself. I wouldn't say what I said without having known... through my soul searching, I have tried Christianity (don't even think this gives you the go ahead to start preaching... so I am stopping the inquisition before it even starts right now!), but none of it worked for me. And I know how that music affects people... So let it affect them that way.

Also, about Christian music... we are talking about contemporary, so leave Handel out of this.

Quote:
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that, perhaps one thing that concerns you, is that contemporary Christian music seems to promote a kind of "Happy Thoughts" theology.


For the most part, didy is completely right. And happiness about this subject can only be said a certain amount of times before it starts to get redundant.
Author:  Encountering Gremlins [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:47 pm ]
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DeathlyPallor wrote:
Which brings me to my next point... Christian Metal... just... what the crap?! What a laughably ridiculous concept. Something most Christian activist groups have been fighting... becoming christian? "I bang my head on the wall for you, Jesus??" Something about this makes me laugh incredibly hard... well... maybe because it's pathetic.


What are you talking about? Can you not comprehend the pure genius that is Stryper? They're so good that To Hell With The Devil changed James Hetfield's life. "It made me feel pure unadulterated hate. It absolutely inspired me as a musician." LOL. :mrgreen:
Author:  DeathlyPallor [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:57 pm ]
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Yeah... stryper made me sick too... especially with those bumblebee outfits! :mrgreen:
Author:  DESTROY US ALL! [ Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:37 pm ]
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I was waiting for Stryper to come up in this thread. Goes to show Christian music isn't all cookie-cutter pop, but some Hairsprayed-color coordinated metal in there to! I don't understand why a band would devote them selves to only writing praise and worship songs. I mean, artists like Jackson Browne are very Christian and there are chrisitian themes in his songs. These are most evident in "Rock me On The Water" and "The Pretender". They are never outright saying that, its more of a background thing. That doesn't bother me, but when a song is just singing "God loves me, the king has risen blah de blah blah" it bugs the crap out of me.I guess Christian Rock is only for those who are to obsessed with religion to see any meaning behind it.
Author:  DeathlyPallor [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:23 am ]
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Quote:
I guess Christian Rock is only for those who are to obsessed with religion to see any meaning behind it.


Exactly my point.
Author:  StrongRad [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:29 am ]
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DESTROY US ALL! wrote:
I mean, artists like Jackson Browne are very Christian and there are chrisitian themes in his songs. These are most evident in "Rock me On The Water" and "The Pretender". They are never outright saying that, its more of a background thing. That doesn't bother me, but when a song is just singing "God loves me, the king has risen blah de blah blah" it bugs the crap out of me.

Could be you. Are you afraid of religion?

I do agree that some of the poppier sounding bands do get on my nerves (but that's because they sound kinda pop). I will admit that, if you look through my CD's you won't find much contemporary Christian music (a couple of Michael W. Smith albums, 1 from Five Iron Frenzy, 1 from Supertones, one from Bleach, one from Bigtone, and one of those compilation albums). Then again, you won't find all that many current non-Christian bands, either.

The main reason, for me, anyway, is that all of the good songs have already been written.
Author:  DeathlyPallor [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:13 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
That doesn't bother me, but when a song is just singing "God loves me, the king has risen blah de blah blah" it bugs the crap out of me.


I think it is probably for the same reason as why I get bothered by them. Not because of being afraid of religion... but because the redundancy gets awfully aggrivating.
Author:  Hi Guys [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:07 pm ]
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DeathlyPallor wrote:

Oddly enough, a south park episode covers that. This is very true, though.

And that quote from king of the hill is very true.



I've seen both of those, and they both pretty much cover what I think about the subject.

Hank Hill wrote:
You're not making Christianity better, you're just making rock n' roll worse.
Author:  seamusz [ Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
DeathlyPallor wrote:
How dare you say I don't know and disparage the faith I hold to myself. I wouldn't say what I said without having known... through my soul searching, I have tried Christianity (don't even think this gives you the go ahead to start preaching... so I am stopping the inquisition before it even starts right now!), but none of it worked for me. And I know how that music affects people... So let it affect them that way.

Also, about Christian music... we are talking about contemporary, so leave Handel out of this.


I'm sorry for assuming that you didn't belive in Christ... Im still not sure by your post where you stand on Him. The point is, is that you have no proof that there are any less flavors of happiness than of misery. Just because you seem to identify more with negativity, doesn't discount positivity any.

Contemperary is a relative term. The point was that no matter how much has been said on a topic, it can hardly be considered exhasted. Especially a topic that holds as much emotion and conviction as Christianity.
Author:  Didymus [ Wed Jan 18, 2006 5:20 pm ]
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Here's something I find quite fascinating: most of what people call "contemporary worship" is essentially based on the paradigms of 70's folk music. Either that, or what radio stations call "adult contemporary" (you know, Michael Bolton, Richard Marx, etc., what I call "Granny Music"). Just an observation.

Now I don't want to sound like I'm promoting negativity, but I have come to despise what I call "Happy Thoughts" theology.

(I get this term from an episode of The Twilight Zone, in which there was this horrid little kid with magic powers, and if you weren't always thinking happy thoughts, he would send you into the corn field, or turn you into a football or something).

Anyway, as I study the Scriptures, I find that God accepts a wide range of emotional expressions, including grief, doubt, and even rage. Oddly enough, the psalmists even occasionally express anger at God. And yet, for some reason, God accepts this rage as worship, bizarre as it may sound. Why? I have a theory: God wants us to offer ourselves to him as we truly are, doubt, anger, and all. He would rather us come to his throne and say, "God, why the crap are you treating me like this?" than to run away and hide from him like cowards.

I'll relate a little experience I once had last year. I was harboring a lot of anger at God, but did not want to admit it to myself. Then my CPE group did a study of a book by Rabbi Polish called, Keeping Faith with the Psalms. In one chapter, he talked about anger at God, and for some reason it resonated with me. Less than a week later, there I was in front of my CPE group, hurling Kleenex boxes at the cross, while my supervisor egged me on to throw harder. After about the 8th or 9th throw, I found my anger gone. It was as though Christ were telling me, "Tom, I took whips, thorns, nails, and a spear for you. I can handle a Kleenex box. Let me have it. I can take it."

That's one of the problems I have with most contemporary Christian music. Almost every contemporary Christian song I've ever heard is about Jesus making us happy. Well, to quote C. S. Lewis, "I'm not entirely sure God wants us happy." Was Jesus always happy? No. I've seen Jesus weep bitter tears of grief. I've seen Jesus lash out in rage. I've seen Jesus suffering the inner turmoil of doubt. If God himself bears such a wide range of emotions, then why can't we?
Author:  Kevin DuBrow [ Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:06 pm ]
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I like some Christian music, but in recent years, Christian music has had a BIG decline. The songs are becoming fruity(Chris Rice), overplayed(Mercy Me), and they just aren't that good to start out with(Mercy Me, I don't like them.) They need to make more quality songs.
Author:  Didymus [ Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:19 pm ]
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Try Arvo Part's Te Deum. Now that's quality music! I like his Magnificat as well.
Author:  Crystallina [ Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:32 am ]
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I don't like a lot of the vocalists' voices. Nowhere in the Bible does God command his followers to eschew voice lessons; I'd imagine he'd be better pleased by a pleasant-sounding voice than something akin to a stalled car engine.
Author:  StrongRad [ Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:48 am ]
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Crystallina wrote:
I'd imagine he'd be better pleased by a pleasant-sounding voice than something akin to a stalled car engine.

HAHAHA!!!
That's funny.
True, too.

To quote my dad (He dropped by the performance hall where I used to work when a Christian "punk" band was doing soundcheck): "Well, the Book says to make a joyful noise. Not sure if it's joyful or not, but they've certainly got the noise part covered."
Author:  Jerome [ Sat Jan 21, 2006 3:15 am ]
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Christian rock is generally simply terrible. U2 are good though.
Author:  Kevin DuBrow [ Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:53 pm ]
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Jerome wrote:
Christian rock is generally simply terrible. U2 are good though.


U2 isn't really classified as a Christian rock band. Their members are all Christian, and the lyrics have religious references in them, but I don't think they classify them as Christian. They should. People need to learn that just because a band is not labeled "Christian", it doesn't mean they are evil.

500th post. :p
Author:  Kittie Rose [ Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:21 am ]
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No, because christianity isn't what U2's music is about, even if the members are christian.. They are about a wide variety of things, like they should be.
Author:  Schmelen [ Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:27 pm ]
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I really don't mind christian music. But all christian music I have heard is terrible... I would love to hear a good piece of christian music.
I said "christian music" way too many times there.
Author:  Occasional JD [ Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:28 pm ]
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Well, music is music.

If it's good, I like it.
Author:  Didymus [ Sat Feb 11, 2006 9:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Schmelen wrote:
I really don't mind christian music. But all christian music I have heard is terrible... I would love to hear a good piece of christian music.

I reiterate, Arvo Part's Te Deum.
Author:  topofsm [ Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:03 am ]
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The biggest two christian bands today are Switchfoot and Relient K. Fusebox is probably a favorite too. Look them up, they made the classic "Every Move I Make"
Author:  Schmelen [ Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:44 am ]
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Didymus wrote:
Schmelen wrote:
I really don't mind christian music. But all christian music I have heard is terrible... I would love to hear a good piece of christian music.

I reiterate, Arvo Part's Te Deum.


Okay, wait. I meant Christian Rock Music. Whatever I was just made to listen to then, was awesome.
Author:  furrykef [ Sun Feb 12, 2006 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Christian Music
Funkstar wrote:
You have probably heard of new Christian rock bands and pop bands on TV and over the internet. I would have to say that it's a great idea that religion is being brought into the youth market with music that is up to date, but some people seem to think that we should keep to psalms and hymns for worship. What do you think on the subject.


I probably wouldn't remind religious music so much if it didn't usually sound so dang cheesy. I haven't heard a religious-themed song that I think actually sounds cool (unless the religion isn't Christian, anyway). Then again, most Christian music I've heard is country-style, which is a lose/lose combination for me.

But anyway, I normally don't like religion being waved in my face. I think it's not so much the message so much as it just rubs me the wrong way somehow. For instance, when I read the comics in the paper every morning (BTW, I hate the comics in the paper but I read them out of a long-established habit and morbid curiosity), I read B.C. and whenever Johnny Hart tries to write about Christianity, it just always comes out... silly. Especially considering that B.C. is supposed to be happening before Christ. And what's with that nearly-racist Indian caricature and that Anno Domini guy he came up with a few years ago?... but I digress.

I'm not bothered that other people believe in things I don't. I believe in things others don't. I may think that other people's beliefs are silly, but I'm sure many people think my beliefs are silly (or worse). But... y'know how the word "preachy" has a negative connotation? It says a lot about how I feel about that sort of thing.

I certainly don't think that Christian music should be pulled from the airwaves or anything. That'd be terrible. Not because of the lack of Christian music, but because of freedom of speech. But I think satanist music and whatnot should be given that same freedom. (I'm not a satanist; just raising a point.) A lot of conservatives don't feel that way, of course.

But, well, it's just not my cup of tea. But I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't like to hear my favorite music, either. C'est la vie!

- Kef
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