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| Do kids these days have no faith? http://forum.hrwiki.org/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6368 |
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| Author: | Bugkiss [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 4:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Do kids these days have no faith? |
I hope this isn't ABP'd. I was thinking the other day about how I don't believe in Santa anymore. Now that I look back at it, it seems kinda ridiculous to believe a fat man came into your house and gave you a bunch of free stuff, but I did believe whole-heartedly for quite a while. What I'm trying to get at is that people stop believing -in ANYTHING- at such a young age. I mean, I was teased in the FREAKING SECOND GRADE for believing in Santa. |
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| Author: | Ninti [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:05 pm ] |
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I agree. Let me get you a link to something that made me sick to my stomach....... EDIT: Here it is. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1546392/posts |
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| Author: | Alberto [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:12 pm ] |
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Well heres the bright side to Santa, if kids dont get presents They blame Santa not the parents for not getting gifts, which is less of a pain in the butt for parents. the bad side, once the kids are old enough to find out He never existed, They lose trust in The're parents. so I'm not sure what to say about this. |
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| Author: | Hi Guys [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:14 pm ] |
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nintendogs123 wrote: I agree. Let me get you a link to something that made me sick to my stomach.......
EDIT: Here it is. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1546392/posts Wow...that's um...wow... |
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| Author: | Kittie Rose [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:38 pm ] |
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Awww. I believe very strongly in stimulating kids' imagination That link was just horrible. I think it's nice kids are taught about Santa though obviously you can't force them to believe in him  It's not a strong religious belief so it won't harm their personal development any; it will just make christmas that more magical.
If I have kids, I'm definitely not going to spoil Santa for them. But I won't be patronising over it like some parents are. I'm 19 and my mum still talks about Santa. |
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| Author: | Shippinator Mandy [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:44 pm ] |
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nintendogs123 wrote: I agree. Let me get you a link to something that made me sick to my stomach.......
EDIT: Here it is. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1546392/posts That's just horrible. Utterly, utterly horrible. |
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| Author: | Einoo T. Spork [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:48 pm ] |
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Shippinator Mandy wrote: nintendogs123 wrote: I agree. Let me get you a link to something that made me sick to my stomach....... EDIT: Here it is. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1546392/posts That's just horrible. Utterly, utterly horrible. I need to cry in a corner for an hour now. What a meanie. A MEANIE I SAYS! |
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| Author: | Kittie Rose [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:59 pm ] |
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This is nearly as bad as that lesbian girl in Cali whose principle outer her ot her parents against her will... and I don't think they could do anything because she was a minor. I think there are certain rights that kids need to have that they don't, I really do. |
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| Author: | StrongCanada [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 10:36 pm ] |
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I've always been torn about how to approach the Santa subject, should I have any kids. I believed in Santa, and was disappointed to find out he wasn't real. I liked that mother's approach, of sending the "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus" letter to the offending teacher. I think eventually, the idea of Santa as many kids believe in him will die out. But I sincerely hope that we are left still appreciating his spirit, the spirit of giving to others and goodwill, and celebrating in at least a similar way. |
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| Author: | Encountering Gremlins [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 10:56 pm ] |
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Alberto wrote: Well heres the bright side to Santa, if kids dont get presents They blame Santa not the parents for not getting gifts, which is less of a pain in the butt for parents. the bad side, once the kids are old enough to find out He never existed, They lose trust in The're parents.
so I'm not sure what to say about this. The idea of ever feeling offended and/or losing trust in my parents because they "lied" to me about Santa has never crossed my mind at all. I think if parents execute the mystery of Santa among their kids properly, it should bring nothing but positive results. It brings a special mystique to Christmas for kids, letting their imaginations run free or whatever, and it also encourages them to be on their best behavior not just during the holidays, but all year around. What's not to respect about that? If that should really count as a "lie", it's about the best lie my parents ever told, and one I'm actually grateful for being involved in. I think if I ever have kids, I probably wouldn't approach it any other way, assuming allowing them to believe in Santa is a still widespread idea by then. |
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| Author: | Cobalt [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 11:33 pm ] |
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i think it's disgusting to intentionally lie to your children. it undermines their trust in what their parents teach them. i don't see how it ruins the spirit of the holiday to tell kids that their parents buy them presents instead of some fictional fat guy who lives at the North Pole. it's stupid. |
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| Author: | Encountering Gremlins [ Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:07 am ] |
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Cobalt wrote: i think it's disgusting to intentionally lie to your children. it undermines their trust in what their parents teach them. i don't see how it ruins the spirit of the holiday to tell kids that their parents buy them presents instead of some fictional fat guy who lives at the North Pole. it's stupid.
Well, if I felt like my parents were lying regularly to me about more significant things, I'd probably be concerned, but Santa is one of the few things that I don't see the harm in parents lying about because of the positive aspects surrounding him and Christmas in general. And it's not like we were ever told all our presents came from Santa - it was usually just the biggest, most important ones which got that distinction. |
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| Author: | Mr.KISS [ Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:37 am ] |
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Cobalt wrote: i think it's disgusting to intentionally lie to your children. How many children have you raised exactly? Quote: i don't see how it ruins the spirit of the holiday to tell kids that their parents buy them presents instead of some fictional fat guy who lives at the North Pole. it's stupid.
Well, it's alot funner on Christmas if there is a touch of magic to it. I think you may be missing the point of Santa Claus. |
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| Author: | Einoo T. Spork [ Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:47 am ] |
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I felt the need to link to this. |
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| Author: | Ju Ju Master [ Sun Dec 25, 2005 1:20 am ] |
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I agree with Cobalt. Why do you need to lie to your children? It makes them not trust you, and it's wrong to lie for no REALLY GOOD reason. My parents only told me about Santa because my grandmother was very holiday-y. After she died, they told me the truth. (Though I'd already known) |
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| Author: | Ninti [ Sun Dec 25, 2005 1:26 am ] |
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I've believed in Santa untill I was 8, and when I found out he wasn't real, I lost no trust in my parents at all. Why would you lose trust in someone that was just trying to make something more magical and fun for you? It just the flame of childhood that parents try to keep burning as long as possible. I'll admit, when I found out he wasn't real, Christmas was really never the same without it. |
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| Author: | Alexander [ Sun Dec 25, 2005 1:37 am ] |
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Accualy, my parents never got me into the Santa idea. Because we where a christian family I was told about the birth of Jesus Christ and his significance. So it was never a problem for me. And in my own humble opinion, I plan to do the same with my children. If I ever have any
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| Author: | Cobalt [ Sun Dec 25, 2005 1:54 am ] |
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KISS-Cringle 66 wrote: How many children have you raised exactly? zero, and i hope it'll stay that way. Quote: Well, it's alot funner on Christmas if there is a touch of magic to it. I think you may be missing the point of Santa Claus.
i get the point, i just think it's stupid. i'm not in favour of lying to your children. and it's not just Santa Claus: there's also the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny and the stork (i'm not sure if people still use that one, but they did once), and it's just lies upon lies for no good reason. i don't think it's good parenting to make your kids believe that they live in a world that has these things in it when you KNOW that it's not true. plus, i'm Jewish, so if i did have kids, you know, there wouldn't be any Santa, obviously. |
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| Author: | Alberto [ Sun Dec 25, 2005 2:42 am ] |
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Encountering Gremlins wrote: Alberto wrote: Well heres the bright side to Santa, if kids dont get presents They blame Santa not the parents for not getting gifts, which is less of a pain in the butt for parents. the bad side, once the kids are old enough to find out He never existed, They lose trust in The're parents. so I'm not sure what to say about this. The idea of ever feeling offended and/or losing trust in my parents because they "lied" to me about Santa has never crossed my mind at all. I think if parents execute the mystery of Santa among their kids properly, it should bring nothing but positive results. It brings a special mystique to Christmas for kids, letting their imaginations run free or whatever, and it also encourages them to be on their best behavior not just during the holidays, but all year around. What's not to respect about that? If that should really count as a "lie", it's about the best lie my parents ever told, and one I'm actually grateful for being involved in. I think if I ever have kids, I probably wouldn't approach it any other way, assuming allowing them to believe in Santa is a still widespread idea by then. Fine, whatever "usually They lose trust in The're parents", there, happy!? |
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| Author: | Ju Ju Master [ Sun Dec 25, 2005 2:53 am ] |
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Well, here's a different wuestion: What do you do when your kdis ask "Is Santa really real?" |
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| Author: | Mr.KISS [ Sun Dec 25, 2005 7:04 am ] |
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Ju Ju Master wrote: Well, here's a different wuestion: What do you do when your kdis ask "Is Santa really real?"
Tell them the truth if they are old enough to handle it (8-9). But, if they're just little kids then let them believe. |
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| Author: | Obomaru [ Sun Dec 25, 2005 10:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I never was angry at my parents for telling me he is real. I had a weird way of believing in him. I knew reindeer can't fly, I knew that there can't be a fat man who comes and gives everyone in the world presents. I didn't even see him personally, my parents just put our presents under the Christmas Tree while we were asleep. But I believed in him. I can't really explain. I have to say that I have very beautiful memories of my childhood because of Santa and once I have kids I hope they'll believe in him too. Wow, I said "I" ten times in this post. |
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| Author: | Mr. Sparkle [ Sun Dec 25, 2005 1:36 pm ] |
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I could never comprehend how Santa could do the things he's done. Sometimes, I'm too smart for my own good. |
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| Author: | Kittie Rose [ Sun Dec 25, 2005 3:01 pm ] |
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Cobalt wrote: i think it's disgusting to intentionally lie to your children. it undermines their trust in what their parents teach them. i don't see how it ruins the spirit of the holiday to tell kids that their parents buy them presents instead of some fictional fat guy who lives at the North Pole. it's stupid.
Santa is a wonderful tradition that gets kids believe in something innocent that teaches them that even some fat old man can be a great person just by giving. You're obviously somehow bitter about everythign and want to push your bitterness onto other people. Most kids love the Santa thing. It gives them something to love and believe in. You want to suck all the magic out of everything, leaving a soulless super-sceptic's corpse. Ugh. Led kids believe in magic and fairies and santa, they're kids for smeg's sake. Santa isn't a religious belief or idealogy and most kids would end up believing in him whether you tell them or not. Flat out saying "It's lying" doesn't show how it causes even a trace of harm. There's nothing you've presented which would even begin to suggest it would stunt their personal growth or really hurt them in any way. I mean, how does it really hurt someone? Writers are, after all, professional liars. |
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| Author: | Beyond the Grave [ Sun Dec 25, 2005 4:39 pm ] |
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You know the whole reason why we tall kids that there is Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny is to keep them interested. You tell a kid that there is no Santa you will basically suck the Christmas Spirit out of them. I sure as heck am not going to do it to my kids, when I have them. |
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| Author: | Kittie Rose [ Sun Dec 25, 2005 5:35 pm ] |
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Beyond the Grave wrote: You know the whole reason why we tall kids that there is Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny is to keep them interested. You tell a kid that there is no Santa you will basically suck the Christmas Spirit out of them. I sure as heck am not going to do it to my kids, when I have them.
It's not really a huge step from kids books like spot the dog or humpty dumpty they believe may have happened. Kids need nice light fun things to keep their imagination stimulated(another reason I'm against laying religion on them, but anyway). |
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| Author: | Cobalt [ Sun Dec 25, 2005 5:54 pm ] |
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Christmas Rose wrote: Santa is a wonderful tradition that gets kids believe in something innocent that teaches them that even some fat old man can be a great person just by giving. You're obviously somehow bitter about everythign and want to push your bitterness onto other people. i'm not "bitter about everything" i just think that lying is wrong, ESPECIALLY to your children. unless you have a very good reason for it, like someone's life is in danger. ever heard of "honesty is the best policy?" Quote: Most kids love the Santa thing. It gives them something to love and believe in. You want to suck all the magic out of everything, leaving a soulless super-sceptic's corpse. Ugh. Led kids believe in magic and fairies and santa, they're kids for smeg's sake. Santa isn't a religious belief or idealogy and most kids would end up believing in him whether you tell them or not. oh no, we wouldn't want kids to believe that they live in the kind of world in which we actually live, would we? how terribly cruel! Quote: Flat out saying "It's lying" doesn't show how it causes even a trace of harm. There's nothing you've presented which would even begin to suggest it would stunt their personal growth or really hurt them in any way. I mean, how does it really hurt someone? you actually need me to explain why lying is wrong? fine: it degrades the currency of language. Quote: Writers are, after all, professional liars.
but they don't try to pretend that their lies are the truth. unless they work for the New York Times.[/i] |
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| Author: | Kittie Rose [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:29 pm ] |
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Quote: i'm not "bitter about everything" i just think that lying is wrong, ESPECIALLY to your children. unless you have a very good reason for it, like someone's life is in danger. ever heard of "honesty is the best policy?" Again, you have to actually provide a reason why you think that. Adages are mostly trite considering many of them have been shown to be inaccurate. Technically, you're not supposed to present an opinion without backing it up. But the wonderful things the internets can do, and people who want an opinion on just about everything, no matter how stupid because it's their "right". Well actually, unless you can back it up, in a debate; it isn't. Quote: oh no, we wouldn't want kids to believe that they live in the kind of world in which we actually live, would we? how terribly cruel! They're kids. They live in fantasy worlds regardless. Do you know remember what it was like to be a child, or did you get dropped on your head at some stage? Quote: you actually need me to explain why lying is wrong? fine: it degrades the currency of language.
...what? As I said numeroues times, one line assertments are NEVER evidence or proof. You're saying that, without exception, even if it saves someone's life, all lying is wrong. You haven't provided a shred of any kind of construct that shows that telling kids Santa exists might hurt them. That's not a healthy stance. Perhaps if you had a less binary worldview you might see how there are times that "lying" is beneficial. |
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| Author: | racerx_is_alive [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 3:06 pm ] |
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Let's think pragmatically here. When I was a little kid, I believed in Santa Claus. My parents propagated this "pernicious lie" and I totally fell for it. I later found out, at 6 or 7, that Santa wasn't real. My parents confirmed that it wasn't true. It was sad, but not too sad. Things that did not happen: I lost faith in everything my parents had ever taught me. I felt my parents were liars and I could not trust them. Quote: once the kids are old enough to find out He never existed, They lose trust in The're parents. so I'm not sure what to say about this. Quote: i think it's disgusting to intentionally lie to your children. it undermines their trust in what their parents teach them.
Really, How many people lost their faith in their parents solely because of Santa Claus? I doubt that Santa is ever even the straw that breaks the camel's back. Do you know why parents do this Santa thing? It's because it's so much fun. My son believes in Santa Claus, and it's just adorable. He sat on Santa's lap, and gave him a hug. He's been looking forward to Santa to visit and it's just been really cute. We are also teaching him about the reason for the season, and he wanted to make Baby Jesus a "happy birthday cake." Also, when I was younger, once I found out that Santa wasn't real, it was still lots of fun for me to make sure that my younger siblings believed in Santa as well. (We had a tradition in my family where the first year that you found out the truth about Santa you got to be "his special elf" that year. You would get to help pick the presents that Santa got your siblings, and on Christmas Eve after everyone else was asleep, Mom and Dad would sneak in, wake you up, and you got to help set up all the toys for everyone else. Of course, they wouldn't set up your toys until after they had sent you to bed. You also got to help finish of the cookies. Lots of fun.) |
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| Author: | Entropy [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:15 pm ] |
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Here is my take on the subject: I think santa is a parents way of being humble. It's the magic of hearing your child wake up and scream with excitment because someone else gave them something. I also think that santa is more of a spirit that a person. All year people can be jerks, but when the holidays come around, we see the spirit of giving and santa seemes to be the icon of that. So when you come about to seeing santa is not real, are you realy going to stop trusting your parents because the awsome presents they got all those years realy came from them? I would be loving and thank them for giving me many years of magic. So there you go. I belive in santa, just not the way you think. |
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