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Has anyone here read "The Great Divorce" by CS Lewis? That is often how I portray hell. I don't know how to accurately state how I feel. If you haven't read the book, see if you can find a copy. It's real short, and in my mind, worth reading.

"If the wages of sin is eternal punishment in Hell, then Jesus would have to be eternally punished if in fact He died for my sins. But the Bible says the wages of sin is death which is exactly what Jesus did--died. So how can you say people will be eternally tortured in Hell? Is Jesus presently being eternally tortured in place of those who accepted Him as Lord?

but the millions of people in the world who are born into miserable lives they have little, or even no, control over making better. I'd think people who are in those kinds of situations have a lot of perfectly understandable reasons to reject God as part of their lives and shouldn't be blamed for it.

Encountering Gremlins wrote:

Well, you have to remember that god is one of those forgiving types. This makes it really hard to get into hell, you'd practically have to try and eat Jesus or something.

But...Christians do "eat Jesus" when they recieve Confirmation!

Or rather, his Body and Blood.

So, does anyone have any idea wehre hell would exist? Or if it's in such a place that it doesn't exist?

Hell= What I hate the most.
Pretty much that.

I think he means hell is full of things that he hates. Like fire or Lindsay Lohan.

If Hell is real and everlasting, why does Psalm 30:5 say His anger is but for a moment?

If Hell is real, why is it not mentioned in most leading English Bible translations until Matthew? (Most Bible translations now acknowledge Sheol should NOT ever be translated Hell as the King James Bible incorrectly did.)

I'm going to try and answer a few of these (the ones that aren't worded all funny), I hope I don't misunderstand the question (as I normally do).

Quote:

If Hell is real and everlasting, why does Psalm 30:5 say His anger is but for a moment?

Asuming "he" is god, then it's because he's forgiving.

Quote:

Do you mean refering to Hell by name? Or by descrpition? Because Jesus mentions a place of "Crying and Gnashing of teeth" many times. I;m not quite sure when though. Besides, Jesus wanted to spread love and hope, not scare people with stories of suffering and pain.

refering to the first question, God Said that all who enter hell shal lye there in agony for ever, yet god forgives, but then why did he say that ainners will burn in hell forever?

and my question: If gods punnishments are infinite, why must someone pay for something on earth that is finite?

Author:	Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:49 am ]
Post subject:	If Hell Was Real....
hey you guys. once again, me being me late at night, i lye and wonder "What is Hell?" or "Is there really a hell?". i have done a few studdies into it, but not alot, i got some things from some websites, and stuff, and i found some questions that say cannot be answerd, so ive decided to ask them here: "If my daughter is in Hell because she did not get "born again" then I'd rather go to Hell and be with her than to be with your God because there would be more love in Hell than near your vindictive God." "How can you say burning someone alive forever is "just" or "fair" for everyone who hasn't accepted Jesus Christ? Even we humans fit the punishment to the crime. According to you, Christians, people are destined to be burned in Hell whether we are bad or not. Just being born into this world is grounds for being endlessly tortured. You say the punishment is the same regardless of the number of sins committed or how bad they were. This is not justice--this is insanity!" "Infinite punishment for finite crimes just doesn't seem just." "I could never torture people endlessly, especially my own children. How can you say that God will do that to His children? This seems hideous. You make God look like a monster worse than Hitler, not a loving Father Who would even die for His enemies!" "If Hell is real and the greatest part of humanity went there, how could you HONESTLY say that 'Love NEVER fails?' Seems like Love fails most of the time according to your understanding of things." (I Cor. 13:8) "If the wages of sin is eternal punishment in Hell, then Jesus would have to be eternally punished if in fact He died for my sins. But the Bible says the wages of sin is death which is exactly what Jesus did--died. So how can you say people will be eternally tortured in Hell? Is Jesus presently being eternally tortured in place of those who accepted Him as Lord? there are more, but i dont wanna post em just yet. well> try and answer and disscuss.

Author:	Mr.KISS [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:01 am ]
Post subject:
Well, I have three ideas about what Hell may be. One being the old fashioned idea of hell being an actual physical place where sinners go when they die. Another is this new "Opera" version of it being just an idea. Like, if god does not love you, you can't be happy. The last one is a mix of the two (this is the one I think is most plausable), in this version Hell is a place were your thought and conciousness go if you were a sinner during life. You have no physical body, your conciousness just hangs in the plane of non-existence as you go through unimaginable types of pain. You have no sense of any physical exisistance, the only thing that you know for the rest of eternity is pain. The last one is also my view of Heaven, except instead of being in constant pain, you're in a constant state of bliss.

Author:	Douglas [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 3:21 pm ]
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Well, being a Bible-believing Christian, here's my two shekels... Hell is a place where you go after you die when you have denied the existence of God, or rejected him. I figure that when you get there, there will be nothing. No people. No nothing. So you definitely won't be with your friends who have also gone to hell, as some people seem to think. The real agony of hell will come from the absolute absence of God. When someone is in hell, he/she will realize that, in fact, there is a God, and that he/she rejected him, and this is their punishment. Most likely that will make them angry at God for abandoning them... and when they try to remember memories of their time on earth to quell the loneliness, those memories will fade away. Sothat's what I think hell would be like. Complete and utter loneliness and nothingness, without God.

Author:	Stu [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:
Has anyone here read "The Great Divorce" by CS Lewis? That is often how I portray hell. I don't know how to accurately state how I feel. If you haven't read the book, see if you can find a copy. It's real short, and in my mind, worth reading.

Author:	Joshua [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:
I believe in hell, but I can't imagine anyone being locked in there for FREAKIN' ETERNITY! So my view is like, when Jesus takes over the earth... either hell will be emptied of bodies to have a second chance, or people would be able to rescue people in there... something like that.

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Author:	Didymus [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:
I think the greatest torment of hell is that people will be eternally separated from God. They will be left with only their rage, hatred, lusts, and other evils with no relief, knowing that they missed out on an opportunity to be free from them forever. A common image of hell is that of the Outer Darkness. The image is of people who were once invited to a party, but refused to come, and they can only look hungrily in the windows while those who attended the party enjoy themselves.

Author:	Encountering Gremlins [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:
The idea of going to the Hell as people perceive it in its' most negative "eternal suffering" form because of the rejection of God, and especially the idea of suffering for eternity for this, has never agreed with me at all. I'm not talking about those who have committed unimaginably horrible sins that should deserve at least some level of high suffering, but the millions of people in the world who are born into miserable lives they have little, or even no, control over making better. I'd think people who are in those kinds of situations have a lot of perfectly understandable reasons to reject God as part of their lives and shouldn't be blamed for it, especially since God's existence can't be proven for sure in the first place. But as far as my personal view of Hell goes, I still believe it to be closer to being a "state of mind" that exists more as a battle between you and your own personal demons on this Earth than an actual place. But if that "place" actually exists in death, I choose to believe it exists as the ultimate rehab center for those to "see the light" or whatever cliched phrase you might want to throw out. That's just my two cents, though.

Author:	What's Her Face [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:40 pm ]
Post subject:
I'm going with Jean Paul Sartre - hell is other people, who seek only to fulfil their own desires in vain. Stu wrote: Has anyone here read "The Great Divorce" by CS Lewis? That is often how I portray hell. I don't know how to accurately state how I feel. If you haven't read the book, see if you can find a copy. It's real short, and in my mind, worth reading. Yeah, I'd definately recommend that, and Lewis' "Screwtape Letters" too - more exploration of the weakness of human nature and Lewis' personal struggle with spirituality.

Author:	Acekirby [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:
Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote: "If the wages of sin is eternal punishment in Hell, then Jesus would have to be eternally punished if in fact He died for my sins. But the Bible says the wages of sin is death which is exactly what Jesus did--died. So how can you say people will be eternally tortured in Hell? Is Jesus presently being eternally tortured in place of those who accepted Him as Lord? No, no, no. You missed the point. When Jesus died, he did go to hell. He didn't suffer there, but rather, he freed the souls in hell that had not been redeemed before Jesus came to Earth. Also realize that Jesus was Resurrected onto Earth, so he wouldn't be in hell any more at this point in time. As for my last point, Jesus eventually ascended into Heaven, where he is now with his Father. Jesus is not in hell, he is in Heaven.

Author:	Mr.KISS [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:
Encountering Gremlins wrote: but the millions of people in the world who are born into miserable lives they have little, or even no, control over making better. I'd think people who are in those kinds of situations have a lot of perfectly understandable reasons to reject God as part of their lives and shouldn't be blamed for it. Well, you have to remember that god is one of those forgiving types. This makes it really hard to get into hell, you'd practically have to try and eat jesus or something.

Author:	Acekirby [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:
KISS-Cringle 66 wrote: Encountering Gremlins wrote: but the millions of people in the world who are born into miserable lives they have little, or even no, control over making better. I'd think people who are in those kinds of situations have a lot of perfectly understandable reasons to reject God as part of their lives and shouldn't be blamed for it. Well, you have to remember that god is one of those forgiving types. This makes it really hard to get into hell, you'd practically have to try and eat Jesus or something. But...Christians do "eat Jesus" when they recieve Confirmation! Or rather, his Body and Blood.

Author:	seamusz [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:
Acekirby wrote: But...Christians do "eat Jesus" when they recieve Confirmation! Or rather, his Body and Blood. Actually, most Christian Denominations only believe that the Bread and Wine represent the Body and Blood of Christ... Catholicism is the only denomination that I know of that teach actual transubstantiation... but Im sure Didymus will correct me if Im wrong. As to the topic... I would say that in my thinking Hell is quite not properly explained in scripture... I would doubt that any amount of explaining would be able to properly paint a picture of Hell. Really, if you are seperated from God for eternity, wouldn't that be Hell?

Author:	Didymus [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:
I accept your invitation, Seamuz. Eastern Orthodox (whose traditions predate Roman Catholicism) and Lutherans likewise believe that the Bread and Wine are the Body and Blood of Christ and are not merely symbolic. From my reading of Scripture and the Church Fathers, it seems that this was the predominant belief of the Church from the earliest days until about 1500 (probably because of the Radical Protestants like Ulrich Zwingli and Menno Simmons). Personally, my thought is, if Jesus Christ could turn water into wine, create several thousand fish sandwiches from only five loaves of bread and a couple of sardines, and die and rise from the dead, then it's not unbelievable that he could infuse simple bread and wine with his own holy essence. It certainly helps to make sense of John 6 and 1 Cor 11. But back to the main topic (and this has actually already been covered elsewhere), the point is that God himself has already made the ultimate sacrifice--his own life on the Cross--in order to save mankind from hell. Now, considering the price God himself had to pay, this should make the reality of hell a little easier to grasp (i.e, if God takes it that seriously, then so should we). Furthermore, considering the price he did pay, don't you think it makes sense that he'd want people to recognize the price he paid, and expect people to acknowledge him as the one who did pay that price?

Author:	Mr.KISS [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:
Woah, maybe I should of used something besides eating jesus as my example (would've saved people some typing). So, does anyone have any idea wehre hell would exist? Or if it's in such a place that it doesn't exist?

Author:	Hi Guys [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:
I think of 3 versions of Hell: 1.I kind of believe Dante's version of Hell. The philosopher not the video game. You know, having your organs eaten, and sitting in pools of defacation. 2. The Bonus Stage version of Hell where you either have to watch Time Squad, Shrek 2, or eat Satan's mom's spaghetti. 3. A forum where you're constantly being owned and pwn'd. And a couple of +200 Burn Almightys.

Author:	Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest [ Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:43 am ]
Post subject:
i think that theres no hell at all, so Praise Cthulhu, Hail Yog-Sothoth, and Angus young is my idol

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Author:	Didymus [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:
KISS-Dude wrote: So, does anyone have any idea wehre hell would exist? Or if it's in such a place that it doesn't exist? Alternate dimension. Don't you watch any sci-fi?

Author:	seamusz [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:
I probably should have read the wiki article about it before posting... thanks for the bit-o-info.

Author:	Prof. Tor Coolguy [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:
Dante knows

Author:	Didymus [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:
Having studies Dante in college, I am thoroughly familiar with his vision of hell. Please notice that all the punishments given in hell are appropriate to the crimes the person committed in life (for example, those that caused division within the Church are cut open each day, and the popes are all buried in a hole so that people could step on them, etc., and good pagans aren't tormented, per se, but must spend eternity in the realization that they trusted wisdom but failed to acknowledge God's truth). But there is one thing you must keep in mind about Dante: The Divine Comedy is an allegory of Dante's own spiritual journey. The Inferno is about him coming to recognize the destructive power of sin, The Purgatorio is about him searching for purification from those sins of which he finds himself the most ashamed, and The Paradisio is about him finding grace and forgiveness through through the witness of the Church's great saints, and finally coming face to face with God. Notice that Virgil (who represents Wisdom to Dante) can guide him through Hell and Purgatory, but Beatrice (who represents Grace) is the only one who can bring him through heaven to find God.

Author:	Clan rHrN [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:
Hell= What I hate the most. Pretty much that.

Author:	Mr.KISS [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:
Clan rHrN wrote: Hell= What I hate the most. Pretty much that. Why hate hell? It's only a place, it's not evil, the people who go to hell are evil. It's a place for people who sinned to be punished, isn't that actually a sort of a good thing? Satan and people who suffer in hell are bad, there's point in hating them, but hating the punsihment god decided they should indure is crazy. It's like hating prison. *I know this may seem like I'm only saying this because it was clan who posted it, but that's not why

Author:	ed 'lim' smilde [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:
I think he means hell is full of things that he hates. Like fire or Lindsay Lohan.

Author:	Mr.KISS [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:
ed 'lim' smilde wrote: I think he means hell is full of things that he hates. Like fire or Lindsay Lohan. It sounded more like he hated Hell itself, but it doesn't matter I guess.

Author:	Cobalt [ Thu Dec 22, 2005 5:53 am ]
Post subject:
it's worth noting that there's no hell in Judaism. not in the sense that Christianity understands the concept.

Author:	Mr.KISS [ Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:45 am ]
Post subject:
I'm going to try and answer a few of these (the ones that aren't worded all funny), I hope I don't misunderstand the question (as I normally do). Quote: If Hell is real and everlasting, why does Psalm 30:5 say His anger is but for a moment? Asuming "he" is god, then it's because he's forgiving. Quote: If Hell is real, why is it not mentioned in most leading English Bible translations until Matthew? (Most Bible translations now acknowledge Sheol should NOT ever be translated Hell as the King James Bible incorrectly did.) Do you mean refering to Hell by name? Or by descrpition? Because Jesus mentions a place of "Crying and Gnashing of teeth" many times. I;m not quite sure when though. Besides, Jesus wanted to spread love and hope, not scare people with stories of suffering and pain.

Author:	Mr.KISS [ Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: refering to the first question, God Said that all who enter hell shal lye there in agony for ever, yet god forgives, but then why did he say that ainners will burn in hell forever? Because god only forgives you if you want to be forgiven. If you don't care, then niether does he. Quote: and my question: If gods punnishments are infinite, why must someone pay for something on earth that is finite? Well, maybe the punishments aren't infinite, we can't be sure.