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What part seems impossible? I will gladly answer any questions.

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it seems impossible that God could be such a jerk as to condemn anyone to eternal torment just for not believing in Him if they're otherwise good people. and if it were true, it would mean that He is not the sort God that i am interesting in worshipping.

God doesnt want to send us there, we wants to live with us forever in heaven. But he cant be in the presence of sin, and without beliving in God and having your sins forgiven, you cant come into heaven, and the devil has won. Its like this...

heaven is like a perfect white house. your soul is like a white robe. when you sin you get that robe dirty, and cant come into the house of God. But when you become a christain, and repent for your sins, God will wash all your sins away, so you can live with him forever.

Its not like God is the bully with the magnifying glass, he is the one that trys to fix our anthills, or give us food, but we just run away. If God was really mean to us, he would just torture us now, but he loves us and wants us. At any time he COULD just squash us between his fingers, but he isnt the jerk that people think he is. He wont hurt us, so we need to stop running from him.

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except, no. you're regurgitating Christian dogma, but the problem is i already know all that stuff and have rejected it because it's nonsensical. sorry.

God isn't sending us there. We willfully choose to go there, whether we think it's real or not, by rejecting the free gift of salvation ZHe offers us. He's giving us a "Get out of Jail Free" card... all we have to do is believe what He says.

again, no. it's bollocks. if God is merciful, and i believe that He is, then there can't be a hell.

God is merciful, and thats why he is letting us come to heaven with him.

He hates to see us go to hell. Like a father seeing his child go to prison for the rest of his life, no bail. He wants you to do the right thing, and accept him, and obey his laws, so you dont end up like that.
God doesnt sit up in heaven saying "oh well, antother one gone, well he had it coming!!!!"
He loves us more than we can ever imagine, and wants us with him. He doesnt want to get rid of hell, because we wouldnt have a choice to love him.

what would you rather, be loved by real children, or be loved by robots you programed to say "i love you" but no emotion?

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Could you do me a favor, Cobalt, and please explain why that is? I have an answer, but I would like to know your reasons, first, just to make sure that I'm following you correctly.

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because there's no way that a merciful God would ever condemn someone to an eternity of suffering, period. particularly just for not believing in Him, if they're otherwise a good person.

"good" is a relative term, though. What you consider a "good person" might not be what an all powerful being considers a "good person".

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

but according to Christianity you can do everything that the Bible tells you to do, except you don't believe in Jesus, and you're going to hell. that is unacceptably cruel.

but, if you're doing everything in the bible except believeing in Jesus, you're not doing EVERYTHING the bible is telling you.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

Because, no matter how great we are, it's still like "filthy rags" compared to the perfectness of God. God and sin just don't mix.

Think of it this way. Imagine you had just broken into a rich guy's car and stole everything in it, and killed his family, and all your friends had seen it. The cops find out, and pull you into court. The judge gives you a life sentence. Either that, or pay a ridiculous amount of money which you could never come up with. Your friends all come up to testify, and say that it was totally out of character for you to do that, and that you're usually a really great guy. But that still doesn't change what you did. You still have to go to jail for it.

But then, the rich guy comes in, and offers to pay your bail. You would go off with no punishment at all. In fact, he would even serve the time for you. He would even die for you. And you don't even know the guy.

You see where I'm going with this? Turning down Jesus's offer of eternal life with Him is like telling that rich guy that you don't care about his offer; you'd rather die in jail (or live eternally in hell, running with the metaphor) instead.

You've got nothing to lose and everything to gain by following Him.

Well, let's look at things this way: If God loves us, why would he send everyone who didn't believe in Him to hell for that reason only? If He were so loving, why couldn't He simply get rid of evil, or automatically put everyone into heaven? A major thing to remember is that He does love each and every one of us, and will only do whatever allows Him to love us the most.

Way back in Genesis, at the creation story, God made man in his own image. Other discussions aside, this included the valuable gift of Free Will, that is, choice. He made us able to choose what we want, as opposed to what somebody tells us. (If you notice, the ability to choose is a subject of major importance in the world: just look at a lot of today's advertising, as well as politics/legistlation) A part of this Free Will is that we should get to be able to choose on pretty much everything within our own individual control (we're not robots).

These choices cover everything in life: morals, food, appearences, education, etc. One of these options is the choice whether or not to choose God. You can always choose to love Him and accept Him as who He says He is, or you can go with something else, that's your decision.

Back to the earlier question: why did He give us that option then, if saying no condems us? Because, God loves us, and as strange as it may sound, it would actually be less loving of God to take away that option for us. He gave us the gift of Free Will, and that choice in inherent with the package. His options were to give us that option, because He loves us and wants us to live a full and productive life, or to deny us that gift, and save us from damnation, but in reality love us less. I guess a good way to put it would be this question: would you rather have the freedom to choose what you may, or would you like to be an automaton, programed to do what you've been told?

That may sound confusing, but that's the best way I can describe it. I hope that helps explain something that I have learned.

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there is nothing loving about even the possibility of torturing someone for all eternity for any reason. that's kind of the exact opposite of love. in Judaism, you spend a maximum of twelve months being purged of your sins after death before going on to heaven. do Christians think that it's beyond God's power to cleanse a soul of sin?

No, it's not beyond his power. If you do what you're supposed to do, there's no need..

I will tell you, though, that I have often wondered how someone who is relatively good have to suffer the same fate as someone like Hitler.

But, some things aren't meant to be understood.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

exactly.



i guess that's why i could never be a Christian.

I really meant that "some things are beyond our ability to understand". Of course, that would, in effect, mean that they aren't meant for us to understand.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

Woah, you took the words out of my mouth
weird...but anyway, if you cant see something, doesnt mean its not real
Think of air. Its there even though you cant see it
wow that has got to be the most over used phrase in human history^

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you suck

i am willing to accept that there are things we are not meant to understand. that's not the problem. i understand perfectly that it is impossible for a merciful, loving God to damn someone for eternity. it's simply impossible and i cannot believe that. the end.

kay, but i still think you being stubborn

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you suck

That's your opinion.

It's pretty obvious that neither of us are going to budge here (and I would lose respect for you if you did), so let's just shake hands and go make fun of the "I don't fall for fairy tales, so I'm better than you religious people" athiests.

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If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

i'm not being stubborn, i'm being logical. i'm refusing to believe something that makes no sense.

of course it is. whose else would it be?



fair enough!

What about having a different alternative to heaven? Like purgatory, or reincarnation, or even simply ceasing to exist. Any of these would be much preferable afterlives to an eternity of suffering, and would still leave the option for free will open while only letting the faithful into heaven. If hell really does exist and is an eternity of torture, then it seems to me that God didn't think that one through at all.

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After reading the above posts, both sides make good arguments. However, if god loves us, and gave us free will, why is not believing that there is a god a sin? Didn't he give us that right? It just doesn't seem right.

Going to heaven isn't a right, though. Just like, you have the choice whether or not to follow the law, but if you don't you'll go to jail.

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I'll see if this analogy works:

Let's say your in school, and the teacher gives you your homework and other assignments. You can always choose to do, or not do the work, but regardless your choice will have a consequence. If you do your homework, you will do well in the class. If you don't do anything and just sit on your hands all year, you will fail the class.

Chosing to do your work in this senario is roughly equivalent to believing in God. You have the right to not do either, but that's not to say you won't have consequences for doing so.

We have that option as an inherent part of Free Will, and where you end up for eternity will be a result of making that decision.

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Yeah, but why does he care? If god loves every one of us, it shouldn't matter whether we believe he exists or not.

Why should he let you into heaven if you never even acknowledged he exists? What would the point of that be?