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French Riots
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Author:  Rogue Leader [ Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  French Riots
I am surprised that this is not here yet. What do you guys think about the recent French Rioting. By that, what do you think sparked this, and are the rioters right? I think that this is exposing that the French isn't really prepared for large scale rioting. SO far they have instigated a single curfew. That will do so much to help it </sarcasm>
Author:  Beyond the Grave [ Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:48 am ]
Post subject: 
Here is the story.

This is the result of the French show prejudice to Arabs. The deaths of the two Arab teenagers was the spark that lit this powder keg.
Author:  Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest [ Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:23 am ]
Post subject: 
well, lets just hope they tear apart that snooty sovergn nation.
Author:  IantheGecko [ Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:30 am ]
Post subject: 
Here's how it basically started:

Some teenage boys were playing soccer one afternoon. When police showed up to check for immigration IDs, 3 of the guys ran & hid since they thought they were being chased. They climbed into a power substation, where 2 of the guys where electrocuted & one was hospitalized for injuries.

So now, the rioters basically say, "2 civilians dead, so 2 police should be dead!" This is very scary, since there are riots all over France. As a student of the French language (as well as a fairly recent visitor in Paris), this whole debacle saddens me. I will pray for the French people, and that there will be peace again.
Author:  Beyond the Grave [ Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
well, lets just hope they tear apart that snooty sovergn nation.
Hey hey hey, that's not cool. What gives you the right to insult a country. France is a great country, I love it, I wish I could go back there someday. Hopefully it will be in one piece.
Author:  StrongRad [ Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:12 am ]
Post subject: 
...and they say the riots in the US are bad.
The thing I don't get is that 2 muslim teens are dead, yet it seems like most of the rioters I've seen in news footage do not appear to be muslim, most seem to be white or black, I don't see many olive skinned people (who, if ANYONE should be rioting, should be rioting).
Either way, it seems kinda dumb to destroy a country you are trying to live in just because two people ran from cops who weren't chasing them and ended up dying. Of course, if I was in their situation, I probably wouldn't see it this way (I'm sure that some of the teens have probably been told that the cops threw the kids into the power station or something similar).
Author:  DanBo [ Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
StrongRad wrote:
...and they say the riots in the US are bad.
The thing I don't get is that 2 muslim teens are dead, yet it seems like most of the rioters I've seen in news footage do not appear to be muslim, most seem to be white or black, I don't see many olive skinned people (who, if ANYONE should be rioting, should be rioting).


Well, a lot of European Muslims immigrated from North Africa (Morocco, Algeria, Libya), especially the French Muslims. Also, the Muslims that have been there a while, who have family history in France, are white because of, well, being European. Anyway, that's not the point.

The point is that both the government, for its bigotry towards religion and mainstream Islam, and the people rioting over a seemingly accidental situation, are to blame. The French seem to have trouble rebelling against their government. Yes, the government is basically trying to avoid outward displays of religion. But because two young Muslims die by accidental electrocution isnt a reason to riot for such a long time.

The French needed a wakeup call. But not like this. Just goes to show you, France is a nice country, except for the fact it's full of French people.
Author:  StrongRad [ Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think it's funny that the French Government are trying to ban outward displays of religion, while the current US administration is trying to promote (some of) them.

With all the coverage this is getting, I don't think that yesterday's school shooting (where one school administrator died) even got mentioned on the news.
Author:  Rogue Leader [ Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
StrongRad wrote:
I think it's funny that the French Government are trying to ban outward displays of religion, while the current US administration is trying to promote (some of) them.

With all the coverage this is getting, I don't think that yesterday's school shooting (where one school administrator died) even got mentioned on the news.

Yeah, they recently banned Muslim females from wearing hujabs, or the headress thing. Seriously, that is, well, on the verge of quelling freedom of speech.
Author:  Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest [ Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:19 am ]
Post subject: 
Beyond the Grave wrote:
Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
well, lets just hope they tear apart that snooty sovergn nation.
Hey hey hey, that's not cool. What gives you the right to insult a country. France is a great country, I love it, I wish I could go back there someday. Hopefully it will be in one piece.


really, yes, France is a beautiful country, but if they dont have the Gal to help the war on terrorism, i say Good riddence to em.
Author:  Beyond the Grave [ Thu Nov 10, 2005 1:26 am ]
Post subject: 
Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
Beyond the Grave wrote:
Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
well, lets just hope they tear apart that snooty sovergn nation.
Hey hey hey, that's not cool. What gives you the right to insult a country. France is a great country, I love it, I wish I could go back there someday. Hopefully it will be in one piece.


really, yes, France is a beautiful country, but if they dont have the Gal to help the war on terrorism, i say Good riddence to em.
I take it you were one of the people who called French Fries, "Freedom Fries." France does support the War on Terrorism, they just don't support the War in Iraq. They aren't alone though, Germany and Russia don't either. Heck, Half of America doesn't support the War in Iraq.
Author:  Frotzer [ Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:35 am ]
Post subject: 
I dont understand this at all. Why cant the GIGN do something about it? why cant they go under martial law and shoot and KILL them all?
Author:  Beyond the Grave [ Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:37 am ]
Post subject: 
frotzer wrote:
I dont understand this at all. Why cant the GIGN do something about it? why cant they go under martial law and shoot and KILL them all?
What's GIGN?

Killing people won't stop this, this is something that is going to burn itself out.
Author:  Code J [ Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:42 am ]
Post subject: 
frotzer wrote:
I dont understand this at all. Why cant the GIGN do something about it? why cant they go under martial law and shoot and KILL them all?


Ummm....why dont we give all US protesters that fail to abide by protesting rules (don't obstruct the sidewalk/road) the death penelty? I know some of the protesters are going to extreme measures, but its really not right to shoot someone when they dont deserve it.
Author:  StrongRad [ Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:46 am ]
Post subject: 
Code J wrote:
frotzer wrote:
I dont understand this at all. Why cant the GIGN do something about it? why cant they go under martial law and shoot and KILL them all?


Ummm....why dont we give all US protesters that fail to abide by protesting rules (don't obstruct the sidewalk/road) the death penelty? I know some of the protesters are going to extreme measures, but its really not right to shoot someone when they dont deserve it.

I don't advocate shooting them, unless they're proving a direct threat to someone's life, but I really see how you can draw a parallel between protesters that follow laws and people who go around burning stuff and destroying stuff..
Author:  Rogue Leader [ Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Beyond the Grave wrote:
frotzer wrote:
I dont understand this at all. Why cant the GIGN do something about it? why cant they go under martial law and shoot and KILL them all?
What's GIGN?

Killing people won't stop this, this is something that is going to burn itself out.


Man, this is becoming its own entity. Its spreading to other suburbs and other countries :eek:. Even when it does stop, it might not be for long. There may be another spark. And GIGN is France's counterterrosim and hostage rescue team. Or something like that.
Author:  Beyond the Grave [ Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:56 am ]
Post subject: 
Rogue Leader wrote:
Beyond the Grave wrote:
frotzer wrote:
I dont understand this at all. Why cant the GIGN do something about it? why cant they go under martial law and shoot and KILL them all?
What's GIGN?

Killing people won't stop this, this is something that is going to burn itself out.


Man, this is becoming its own entity. Its spreading to other suburbs and other countries :eek:. Even when it does stop, it might not be for long. There may be another spark.
I dunno maybe this will end like the LA Riots did.
Author:  Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest [ Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:20 am ]
Post subject: 
Beyond the Grave wrote:
Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
Beyond the Grave wrote:
Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest wrote:
well, lets just hope they tear apart that snooty sovergn nation.
Hey hey hey, that's not cool. What gives you the right to insult a country. France is a great country, I love it, I wish I could go back there someday. Hopefully it will be in one piece.


really, yes, France is a beautiful country, but if they dont have the Gal to help the war on terrorism, i say Good riddence to em.
I take it you were one of the people who called French Fries, "Freedom Fries." France does support the War on Terrorism, they just don't support the War in Iraq. They aren't alone though, Germany and Russia don't either. Heck, Half of America doesn't support the War in Iraq.


why would i call em freedom fries? i threw rocks at people who did that. why change the name of a food just because it has to do with some wimp country.

i still say that this will be the darkest days of this generations france. perhaps it will be destroyed......yes.. ive always wanted to view a genocide.....
Author:  Beyond the Grave [ Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:23 am ]
Post subject: 
COLA wrote:
yes.. ive always wanted to view a genocide.....
You have no idea how much that comment disturbs me.
Author:  Rogue Leader [ Thu Nov 10, 2005 3:40 am ]
Post subject: 
Beyond the Grave wrote:
COLA wrote:
yes.. ive always wanted to view a genocide.....
You have no idea how much that comment disturbs me.

Seriously man. That isn't cool. At all. Thats like saying you want another Holocuast or another Rwanda.
Author:  DanBo [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:57 am ]
Post subject:  The Dilio
Look, here's the dealio. France historically has been known for taking things too far. In this case, the have taken "taking religion out of politics" to a facist level. And as a result, the religion they were mainly targeting took "fighting the Man" to a unrelenting level. What do both parties hope to acheive? Power, equality, money, freedom, what?
As far as I know both are moving forward like an exercise bike; the wheels are turning, but they aren't going anywhere, except towards mutual destruction.
So here's to you people of France. Please, please, stop everything in your tracks and think for two seconds about the whole situation, not just your own goals. It's like watching a blind person scream at a deaf person who is using sign language.
Author:  What's Her Face [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: The Dilio
DanBo wrote:
Look, here's the dealio. France historically has been known for taking things too far. In this case, the have taken "taking religion out of politics" to a facist level. And as a result, the religion they were mainly targeting took "fighting the Man" to a unrelenting level. What do both parties hope to acheive? Power, equality, money, freedom, what?


I don't agree with you there. There's really nothing to indicate that the French ban on religious symbols was the cause of these riots. And as for France taking things too far, there are countless other countries in the world that are guilty of the same thing - including mine and including yours.

I think the cause of these riots are the same as the cause for the riots in Bradford, England. That is, the deep segregation between the native population and the immigrant population that built up to boiling point.

When I was in France, I definately saw that. The North Africans lived in one quarter of the town, the French in another, with no mixing in between. That's what happened in Bradford, and I see a lot of this in London too (where there have been minor race riots in the past few decades).

The odd thing is that this segregration wasn't caused primarily by French racism, but just because immigrant communities often prefer to live close to their own (I definately know this to happen in the Irish community in America and England). But if this self-ghettoisation goes too far, communities become suspicious and hateful of each other, and tensions rise until breaking point.

In Bradford, there didn't need to be a trigger to kick-start those riots - it just began with some Pakistani kids and English kids throwing abuse at each other. In France, there just happened to be that trigger. But that deep segregation was the real cause, imo.
Author:  Prof. Tor Coolguy [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Has anyone thought about the fact that Karl Marx called this almost 100 years ago? He said that an opressed underclass would rise up because they're tired of being the opressed underclass, I think the two dead Islamic guys just set off.

Buz and I were talking about this on Wensday and we came up with the conclusion that because both the Muslems and the French have superiority complexes it was just a matter of time before they collided and bad stuff happened.
Author:  What's Her Face [ Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Prof. Tor Coolguy wrote:
Muslems and the French have superiority complexes it was just a matter of time before they collided and bad stuff happened.


The creedism and xenophobia aside, as someone who's read psychology I can tell you that you can't attribute superiority complexes to entire ethnic and religious groups. :rolleyes:

Some theories go around about whole cultures suffering from inferiority complexes, aka "cultural cringe", but that's a different and unrelated matter.
Author:  Prof. Tor Coolguy [ Sun Nov 13, 2005 3:30 am ]
Post subject: 
What's her face wrote:
Prof. Tor Coolguy wrote:
Muslems and the French have superiority complexes it was just a matter of time before they collided and bad stuff happened.


The creedism and xenophobia aside, as someone who's read psychology I can tell you that you can't attribute superiority complexes to entire ethnic and religious groups. :rolleyes:

Some theories go around about whole cultures suffering from inferiority complexes, aka "cultural cringe", but that's a different and unrelated matter.


How can an entire culture have an inferiority complex but not a superiority complex?
Author:  StrongRad [ Sun Nov 13, 2005 7:13 am ]
Post subject: 
Prof. Tor Coolguy wrote:
How can an entire culture have an inferiority complex but not a superiority complex?

I'm not arguing with you, WhatsHerFace, but I'm kinda wondering the same thing. Seems like it'd either work both ways or neither way. There's a lot about psychology/sociology that I don't know, though.
Author:  Pop_tire [ Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
frotzer wrote:
I dont understand this at all. Why cant the GIGN do something about it? why cant they go under martial law and shoot and KILL them all?

... because the riots would just get worse. If the riots started because the muslim teens died, because (they thought) of the police, how much more would start happening if the police really did mean to kill them? I agree; soon enough, they're just going to get tired and it's all going to fizzle out. [sound of fire going out] woosh! [/sound of fire going out].
Author:  What's Her Face [ Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
StrongRad wrote:
Prof. Tor Coolguy wrote:
How can an entire culture have an inferiority complex but not a superiority complex?

I'm not arguing with you, WhatsHerFace, but I'm kinda wondering the same thing. Seems like it'd either work both ways or neither way. There's a lot about psychology/sociology that I don't know, though.


When we're talking about a (supposed) cultural inferiority complex, we're talking about a different concept to the psychological inferiority/superiority complexes. I say "supposed", because the cultural inferiority complex, or "cultural cringe", is a fairly experimental idea thrown out by some sociologists. It's also a lot more related to the colonial mentality, than to an inferiority complex in the purest sense of the term.

The idea goes that some countries collectively dismiss their own cultures as inferior to that of another. Like Wiki says, this cultural cringe is most often applied to Australia, by Australians who complain about the influence from British culture on the Australian mindset.

But this idea has been dismissed by critics as an over-simplification, which doesn't take into account the complexity of Australian culture and history.

That brings me back to how you can't apply a superiority complex to an entire culture either - that's itself an over-simplification. In the purest sense of the term, a superiority complex can only refer to any one individual. It's an false feeling of superiority - a kind of denial really - that masks a true sense of inferiority. It's generally caused by some kind of negative parental re-enforcement - like over-criticism and/or emotional neglect.

So because everyone is raised differently, it's not really possible for any one culture to have a collective superiority complex.
Author:  Prof. Tor Coolguy [ Mon Nov 14, 2005 1:47 am ]
Post subject: 
What's Her Face wrote:
So because everyone is raised differently, it's not really possible for any one culture to have a collective superiority complex.


Why not? Americans seem to do that every day.

BURN!...to my own country
Author:  Frotzer [ Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
But I dont understand why did theese ragheads have to start rioting anyway?
If this wasnt for whatever the reason was none of this would of happend but if the cause was because of criminal activity then i support their busting by police
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