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Animal Cruelty for entertainment?!?
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Author:  StrongRad [ Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:14 am ]
Post subject:  Animal Cruelty for entertainment?!?
First of all, I just want to say that I am against animal cruelty for entertainment in any form. However, I am not necessicarily against all the forms of entertainment that some people would call animal cruelty. Mainly because things like rodeos, circuses, zoos, etc. don't seem all that cruel to me (if an animal recieves better food, medical treatment, general care, and companionship than it would get in the wild, or if the animal's pain or injury is not the entertainment, I usually don't see it as cruelty.) I am, however, incredibly angered by a "tradition" in Kentucky. Cock Fighting, to me is cruelty, pure and simple. It's also illegal, but the law has little effect on what people around here do. Most of the time, local law enforcement people are on the take, so they look the other way.
For those of you who don't know what it is, basically, roosters are bred, raised, and trained to fight to the death. A lot of the time, they have metal spurs attached to their legs for increased lethality. Lately, several large "events" have been busted by law enforcement (presumably because they didn't get their kickbacks). When I say "large", I mean 100-200+ seat "arenas" in barns, or even a facility a guy built that consisted of barns and a main, 300+ seat arena.
There are some in the "game" that say this is no different than a rodeo or a circus, where animals are put into discomfort for enjoyment, but those are VERY different. Discomfort and fighting to the death are two VERY different things.
I don't know what really got me on this rant tonight. I'm thinking it was this car I saw that was advertising "game birds", meaning fighting roosters. For whatever reason, it took a lot for me to not set that particular car on fire. Remember, cruelty to animals = bad. Cruelty to stupid people = absolutely hillarious.

Anydangway, what do you people think about this? You know any instances of this crap (not the word I want to use) or, anything similar, going on?

I guess this belongs more in the Religion and Politics than in "Off Topic Discussion"... Move it if you think so. I would but I didn't realize I'd put it here until after I posted it.
Author:  Judas_Homsar [ Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:58 am ]
Post subject: 
Well, I'm not really concerned about this. Hell, I might sound cruel, but it's two chickens fighting, who cares. We do alot of more cruel stuff to animals everyday (ie, hunting, killing, eating) and the everyday products we use are tested on animals. Dont get me wrong I love animals, I have two dogs and a cat, but I'm not really concerned about two chickens that will be on my plate in a month.
Author:  Choc-o-Lardiac Arrest [ Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:59 am ]
Post subject: 
yeah i know about this going on, some guy down the street from us has a rooster and takes it to cock fights, he says it always wins, but other than the fights, he treats that bird in good care, but i still think cock fighting is wrong. we've called the police, but theyve done nothing.
Author:  Judas_Homsar [ Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:02 am ]
Post subject: 
Modestly Hot Guy wrote:
yeah i know about this going on, some guy down the street from us has a rooster and takes it to cock fights, he says it always wins, but other than the fights, he treats that bird in good care, but i still think cock fighting is wrong. we've called the police, but theyve done nothing.


Again just to state my point, the cops have alot of more stuff to take care of than a chicken. Like good ol' Frankie Sinatra said, "That's Life!"
Author:  Duct Tape Patrol [ Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Funny, the world freaks out when we kick a puppy, yet we get a good laugh from watching humans fight? Hm..I think before solving the animal kingdom's problems, we should solve ours. Hear that, Society?? Yes i say forget you, and praise me or something...Yeah...yeah what now...
Author:  Ungurait#7 [ Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
What about "Fear Factor"? That show is cruelty to everything--I mean, people eating live who-knows-what, or being buried in some bunch of little creatures (some of which undoubtedly get squished), or drinking rats in a blender. All for "entertainment". It's horrible. I'm not so concerned with circuses and rodeos, but a TV show where all those animals are tortured and killed on-screen and people subject themselves to gross torture to make money is just disgusting.
Author:  StrongRad [ Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ungurait#7 wrote:
What about "Fear Factor"? That show is cruelty to everything--I mean, people eating live who-knows-what, or being buried in some bunch of little creatures (some of which undoubtedly get squished), or drinking rats in a blender. All for "entertainment". It's horrible. I'm not so concerned with circuses and rodeos, but a TV show where all those animals are tortured and killed on-screen and people subject themselves to gross torture to make money is just disgusting.


Fear Factor is people doing something volutarily. They know what they are getting into...

Humans fighting humans (I'm assuming you mean like K1, Ultimate Fighting, boxing, etc.) is also a different story. Two people, voluntarily fighting. I'm sure it could be said that, since fighting is a "natural instinct" to the roosters, they are voluntarily doing it too, but I find it hard to buy that, for whatever reason.

As for hunting, killing, etc. I don't have a problem with killing an animal for food. I mean, animals are killed for food every day, and not just by humans. The problem I have with hunting is when someone shoots a bear, or whatever, because they decide they want a new rug. To me, the death of an animal for vanity is wrong and pointless..
With that said, I do hunt sometimes, and I eat what I kill. There's nothing wrong, in my mind, with personally killing an animal for food. To me, it seems a bit hypocritical to eat meat, but think that it's wrong to kill it yourself (not saying those who eat meat, but don't kill it are hypocrites)... Of course that's just my opinion.
Author:  ModestlyHotGirl [ Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think Ungurait#7 was more concerned about the cruelty that the animals on Fear Factor are subjected to rather than the people on the show.

I don't condone any sort of entertainment with animals involved. Circuses, rodeos, cockfighting, hunting or fishing for sport, whatever.

And I know, I know, before anyone says it, I know I'm a hypocrite. I eat meat and wear leather shoes. I can't justify my hypocrisy, so please don't ask me to. I guess there's just a moral difference to me between using animals for food and using them for entertainment.

As for people fighting people (boxing or whatever), it's a consent issue. While I don't agree with it, the people involved are aware of what they're entering into, and they don't have to do it if they don't want to.
Author:  StrongRad [ Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
ModestlyHotGirl wrote:
And I know, I know, before anyone says it, I know I'm a hypocrite. I eat meat and wear leather shoes. I can't justify my hypocrisy, so please don't ask me to. I guess there's just a moral difference to me between using animals for food and using them for entertainment.


Fair enough.. I'm a hypocrite, too. I'm against killing animals for the sake of killing animals, but I kill bugs, like flies, wasps, etc because they annoy me.
Author:  StrongCanada [ Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
StrongRad wrote:
As for hunting, killing, etc. I don't have a problem with killing an animal for food.


Hey, if we weren't supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat? :p

Honestly, if I wasn't so picky about food, I'd give vegetarianism a go. It's supposed to be pretty healthy (as long as you don't eat a bunch of crap to replace the meat you aren't having). As for hunting, like you, SR, I don't oppose killing animals to eat them. I don't do it myself, but as long as people follow the regulations (hunting in season, not killing too many) it's fine. A cousin of mine makes his living up in Northern Saskatchewan by hosting hunters on his farm. It's quite a lucrative business, but he's very respectful of the wildlife, and follows all guidlines the gov't sets out to the letter.

BOT - cockfights are CRUELTY. Plain and simple. Yes, chickens/roosters are not very smart, but they are creatures of this world and deserve a little respect for that. At least to the point of not being killed for sport.
Author:  woddfellow2 [ Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
StrongCanada wrote:
Honestly, if I wasn't so picky about food, I'd give vegetarianism a go. It's supposed to be pretty healthy (as long as you don't eat a bunch of crap to replace the meat you aren't having).

My sister was in the hospital for kidney problems because of vegetarianism.
Author:  StrongCanada [ Fri Jun 17, 2005 8:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
woddfellow2'd! wrote:
StrongCanada wrote:
Honestly, if I wasn't so picky about food, I'd give vegetarianism a go. It's supposed to be pretty healthy (as long as you don't eat a bunch of crap to replace the meat you aren't having).

My sister was in the hospital for kidney problems because of vegetarianism.


:eek:
*stands corrected*

Yeeouch. Hope she's doing ok now. :)
Author:  Ungurait#7 [ Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
So eating meat can make you sick, vegatarianism can make you sick. I'll just eat some rocks, those won't hurt me, right?

Anyways, MHG correctly interpreted my point about Fear Factor. It's the cruelty to animals I especially dislike. I just think it's stupid and sad that people are willing to degrade themselves publicly to make some fast cash, especially at the expense of animals.

I do however, eat meat (I just finished a rack of baby back ribs about half an hour ago) and I do wear leather shoes (I think they're leather, anyway). I hope that the animals used for food and clothing are treated as humanely as possible, though I'm sure it's not always the case. There are some foods, like veal, that I won't eat because they involve especially cruel treatment to the animals. I can understand why someone would want to be vegetarian, but I don't think I could live without some meat every once in a while.
Author:  ModestlyHotGirl [ Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:01 am ]
Post subject: 
Vegetarianism can be very healthy so long as you make sure to get protein and vitamin B12 (I think that's the one that only occurs naturally in meat) from other sources (ie. legumes), and take vitamin supplements. A lot of my friends are vegetarian/vegan, and are plenty healthy. Healthier than they were before, actually. Like SC, though, I am way too picky about food to try to subsist on mainly veggies.

[/offtopic]
Author:  StrongRad [ Sat Jun 18, 2005 4:24 am ]
Post subject: 
Ungurait#7 wrote:
(I just finished a rack of baby back ribs about half an hour ago)

I am REALLY jealous, just so you'll know... Good barbecue is just so hard to find nowadays.. People need to learn that slapping some spicy ketchup on a piece of meat and throwing it on the grill is not barbecue.

As for vegan/vegetarian lifestyle, like MHG and SC, I'm waaaaay too picky about what I eat to do that. Most of the foods I like are meat/meat related. I'm not big on veggies, although I DO eat some.

Now, back on topic: I saw someone tonight bragging about his roosters, and how they fight them every weekend... I thought about flipping his truck over the hill with a forklift, but, well, I just dealt with it. What he does is wrong (in my mind) and illegal, but there wasn't much I could do about it, and, well, I don't want to lose my job.
Author:  Frotzer [ Sat Jun 18, 2005 3:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
The animal is already dead! so you think your honoring buy throwing it away?But animal crueltiy isnt for entertainment If 2 chickens fight each other that means that....... GAH!!! my mind keeps bending on what im saying
Author:  extremejon09 [ Sat Jun 18, 2005 4:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Awhile ago I was at my grandpas farm and he had one of those fainting goats (that fainted when you whistled loudly) and my family got a kick out of making it faint repeadidly :-(
Author:  Dark Grapefruit [ Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm in the hypocritical camp too. I can't stand hunting for sport or any entertainment that abuses animals, nor do I approve of wearing fur or leather. But I still eat meat every day... I guess I feel there's some difference between killing an animal for food and killing one for fun. I mean, we did evolve to be omnivorous...

Frotzer wrote:
The animal is already dead! so you think your honoring buy throwing it away?


Sage advice from a wise cartoon character. :rolleyes:
Author:  StrongCanada [ Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
extremejon09 wrote:
Awhile ago I was at my grandpas farm and he had one of those fainting goats (that fainted when you whistled loudly) and my family got a kick out of making it faint repeadidly :-(


I always thought that was mean, but I heard that it isn't....it's just a natural reaction, kinda like those Beta fish (AKA Siamese Fighting Fish) who change colours when you make them mad.
Author:  TURKEY [ Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:45 am ]
Post subject: 
Is now the time where I announce that I have chickens? I probably have already.

Regardless, I don't like animal cruelty one bit. However, I do think it's natural for creatures to eat other species, so I have nothing against EATING animals. If, of course, you don't endlessly torture them.
Author:  StrongRad [ Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:55 am ]
Post subject: 
TURKEY wrote:
Is now the time where I announce that I have chickens? I probably have already.

Regardless, I don't like animal cruelty one bit. However, I do think it's natural for creatures to eat other species, so I have nothing against EATING animals. If, of course, you don't endlessly torture them.


You nailed it, at least the way I see things.. Eating is eating. The endlessly torture thing is why I'm not against hunting, well, usually. One of the biggest things they pushed in the Hunter Education class I had to take to get an "orange card" is ethics. Killing the animal quickly is extremely important so that the animal doesn't suffer needlessly.

I don't have anything against people who see hunting as cruel, to each their own. The truth is, though, that animals on large commercial farms probably suffer a lot more than their wild game counterparts.
Author:  Ungurait#7 [ Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:47 am ]
Post subject: 
Hah, those fainting goats are pretty funny. From what I understand, it doesn't hurt them a bit if you make them faint; what really happens is that their joints lock up and they fall over. But I guess they're pretty durable.

Speaking of fainting animals, my family used to have four chickens (two roosters, two hens). One of the roosters was narcoleptic, no lie. Just show him the tantalizing gleam of a fresh, juicy worm, and he'd...

...go into a temporary coma. Seriously. His name was Narc.
Author:  Stu [ Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ungurait#7 wrote:
Anyways, MHG correctly interpreted my point about Fear Factor. It's the cruelty to animals I especially dislike. I just think it's stupid and sad that people are willing to degrade themselves publicly to make some fast cash, especially at the expense of animals.


Just a note... i was watching a special about fear factor (on vh1 I think). It seems that the people running it are more concerned about the safety of the animals then they are the contestants.

For example, one challenge had a lady in a box being filled with all sorts of creepy things (snakes on her legs, bugs on her torso, and something else on her head). She starts freaking out, I mean really really freaking out. But they won't let her jump out. They first have to safely remove all the animals that are in the box with her (so she can't squish them).

It sounded like they had a couple animal specialists on each and every show involving animal/human interaction.

Of course, they could have just been posing for vh1 to get PETA off their case, but who knows. :)
Author:  Didymus [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:44 am ]
Post subject: 
Animal cruelty is especially fun to watch. How about when that crazy rabbit drops anvils on that duck's head? Or when that yellow bird shoots that cat in the face with a cannon? Or that mouse shoves dynamite down the woodpecker's trousers? Freaking hilarious!
Author:  StrongRad [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:46 am ]
Post subject: 
Didymus wrote:
Animal cruelty is especially fun to watch. How about when that crazy rabbit drops anvils on that duck's head? Or when that yellow bird shoots that cat in the face with a cannon? Or that mouse shoves dynamite down the woodpecker's trousers? Freaking hilarious!


Well, yeah, but those animals can only be killed by "dip", so that's ok.. The animals I'm talking about are a little more easily killed.
Author:  Evin290 [ Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
StrongRad wrote:
Didymus wrote:
Animal cruelty is especially fun to watch. How about when that crazy rabbit drops anvils on that duck's head? Or when that yellow bird shoots that cat in the face with a cannon? Or that mouse shoves dynamite down the woodpecker's trousers? Freaking hilarious!


Well, yeah, but those animals can only be killed by "dip", so that's ok.. The animals I'm talking about are a little more easily killed.

I love Roger Rabbit! Nice reference, StrongRad. ;)
Author:  Code J [ Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:34 am ]
Post subject: 
StrongRad wrote:
As for hunting, killing, etc. I don't have a problem with killing an animal for food. I mean, animals are killed for food every day, and not just by humans.


I know I'm being a bit picky here, but havn't you heard of factory farming? Thousands of farms are being destroyed to make room for factorys where each animal has a small small pen where they can hardly turn around, where they live their entire life out just to reproduce and then be turned into food for humans. I myself am vegetarian, and feel this is the real cruelty crisis.
For more on Factory Farming in a simpler and more enjoyable manner, check out http://www.themeatrix.com.
Author:  StrongRad [ Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:39 am ]
Post subject: 
Code J wrote:
StrongRad wrote:
As for hunting, killing, etc. I don't have a problem with killing an animal for food. I mean, animals are killed for food every day, and not just by humans.


I know I'm being a bit picky here, but havn't you heard of factory farming? Thousands of farms are being destroyed to make room for factorys where each animal has a small small pen where they can hardly turn around, where they live their entire life out just to reproduce and then be turned into food for humans. I myself am vegetarian, and feel this is the real cruelty crisis.
For more on Factory Farming in a simpler and more enjoyable manner, check out http://www.themeatrix.com.

Exactly.. That's why I think hunting is a lot less cruel than most factory farms.. I'm pretty sure that's not the point you were hoping to make, but yeah. I have a friend that owns a feedlot operation for cattle. I can't speak for most, but Reece's farm is pretty careful to avoid cruelty. The animals aren't kept in small spaces, they're more or less, free to roam, and they're fed pretty well.
Author:  Didymus [ Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:07 am ]
Post subject: 
I still think that animal cruelty is great entertainment. I especially love it when that rat hits the cat on the head with a mallet. Or that crazy squirrel hits that stupid dog with everything, including the kitchen sink.
Author:  StrongRad [ Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:15 am ]
Post subject: 
Didymus wrote:
I still think that animal cruelty is great entertainment. I especially love it when that rat hits the cat on the head with a mallet. Or that crazy squirrel hits that stupid dog with everything, including the kitchen sink.

But that dumb dog is asking for it.. Everyone knows that if a squirrel runs into a hole he painted in a wall, and you run after him, you're gonna smash your head.
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